TESTIMONY OF RAYMOND YOUNG, MANAGER OF PERSONNEL AND LABOR RELATIONS, EAGLE-LION STUDIOS

(The witness was duly sworn.)

Mr. MCCANN. Please state your name and your address.

Mr. YOUNG. Raymond Young, 4037 West Eighth Street, Los Angeles.

Mr. MCCANN. By whom are you employed and in what capacity? Mr. YOUNG. Eagle-Lion Studios, as manager of personnel and labor relations.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, in your own language will you tell the committee of your problems? If you need any further questions, I will be happy to give them to you, but I would rather just get your line on the situation here.

Mr. YOUNG. I would prefer to have you give me the questions. Mr. MCCANN. Tell us of your problems of "featherbedding." Mr. YOUNG. Following the outline of "featherbedding" as Mr. Chadwick mentioned it for the purposes of category No. 1, in the case of Eagle-Lion we have a contract orchestra which consists of 20 musicians and 1 director. That orchestra services Eagle-Lion and PRC Productions. Those two companies are in the Pathe group, and they are controlled by Pathe Industries, Inc. At the present time our estimates show a usage of about 400 hours during this current period, which expires on August 31 of this year, whereas under the contract we are paying for 520 hours plus the 2 weeks' vacation. I mean the point I am making is that it is likely that we won't use the entire number of hours for which we have contracted.

Mr. MCCANN. You won't use one-quarter of the number of hours?
Mr. YOUNG. Yes, approximately.

Mr. MCCANN. For which you were forced to contract.
Mr. YOUNG. Approximately that.

Mr. KEARNS. That could be taken into consideration then in the contract, because you would realize that you don't use all of the hours. Mr. YOUNG. That is possible. This is the first year of our contract, although it is a 2-year contract. The musicians are employed under a personal contract for 1 year, which is renewable, and we can change the personnel if we so choose.

Mr. MCCANN. Tell me now, do you need for your organization an orchestra of 20 with a leader?

Mr. YOUNG. Eagle-Lion is making the so-called large pictures. As a matter of fact, our practice is merely to follow the major negotiations. We don't even negotiate. At the present time we simply defer signing a new contract until the majors have completed their negotiations, so that we cannot plead that we need a smaller orchestra in number for our pictures. As a matter of fact, we usually augment our orchestras in all of our pictures and use 30 men, or 35 men, or 40 men, and, of course, those are men in addition to the contract orchestra, but we have no credit for those additional hours. In other words, if we could squeeze the same number of hours in a shorter period by using more men for recording, we probably would not be hurt. It is the matter of stringing out those 520 hours for 20 men throughout the entire year that hurts us.

Mr. MCCANN. Have you any other experiences with "featherbedding," or do you simply corroborate the statements that have been

made, that it is your experience that you have a larger number of men under the contracts than you feel you can really employ?

Mr. YOUNG. That is correct.

Mr. MCCANN. Have you had any particular trouble with the stagehands?

Mr. YOUNG. Well, we have had the same jurisdictional problem that has been described.

Mr. MCCANN. Have you any labor trouble at this time?

Mr. YOUNG. No; we haven't.

Mr. MCCANN. Have you had any since September 26, 1946?

Mr. YOUNG. I don't see the significance of that date.

Mr. MCCANN. Did Mr. Roy Brewer of the IATSE call on you at any time?

Mr. YOUNG. Oh, yes.

Mr. MCCANN. Will you tell us the circumstances of that?

Mr. YOUNG. There was a directive issued by the American Federation of Labor in December 1945, under which certain jurisdiction was given to a group called the Set Erectors, a part of the IATSE group, and in following the operations of the majors, that is the same general set-up, we were required to use the set erectors for certain classes of set construction, so we employed set erectors under those conditions.

Mr. MCCANN. Isn't it a fact that when you had that talk with Roy Brewer-he is the representative of the IATSE-he came to you in company with Joe Singleton?

Mr. YOUNG. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. Business agent of a newly formed union known as local 468; what was that, local 468 of the IATSE?

Mr. YOUNG. Yes, the set erectors.

Mr. MCCANN. And gave the ultimatum to you that your studio would either hire men from local 468 or they would shut down the studio and force you to put on a set erector at $184 per week, two pushers at $2.68 per hour or $145 a week, and two men at $250 per week, $35 per hour, $135 per week?

Mr. YOUNG. At that conversation, as I recall it, we were told that we would have to use set erectors for certain classes of work, and I think at that time the rate was $162. It has since gone to $184. Mr. MCCANN. In other words, you were told what they required you to pay, and you have paid it since?

Mr. YOUNG. Well, I did, in the sense that there was an agreement that the majors had for this scale of pay for that class of work, and we were following it. Our policy is to pay the same rate of pay that the majors would.

Mr. MCCANN. But up to that time you hadn't used any of those people?

Mr.. YOUNG. No, and the majors hadn't either.

Mr. MCCANN. I know, but you had been doing that with the carpenters?

Mr. YOUNG. With carpenters, yes.

Mr. MCCANN. And you had to toss those carpenters out on their necks, didn't you?

Mr. YOUNG. No; we didn't put any out.

Mr. MCCANN. What did you do with them?

Mr. YOUNG. We used carpenters and set erectors together.

Mr. MCCANN. You just had to use an additional number of men to do the same job?

Mr. YOUNG. No; we set up a division between the two jurisdictions, a particular division on which we would call set erectors to do the work and another on which carpenters should do the work.

Mr. MCCANN. You had enough carpenters before you got this ultimatum to do the job, didnt' you?

Mr. YOUNG. Yes.

Mr. MCCANN. So you had to take the set erectors and make the division of work or else put two men out, didn't you?

Mr. YOUNG. Yes.

Mr. MCCANN. And it was to do a job which you never had done? Mr. YOUNG. Yes.

Mr. MCCANN. That is certainly "feather bedding," isn't it?

Mr. YOUNG. Let me explain it further. We were in the midst of a very large construction program at the time, and we could employ a great number of carpenters there, so the carpenters were employed between the set construction job and mixed up with the permanent construction job, so if you are assuming that we had to fire any of the carpenters to make room for the best erectors, I can say that we didn't do that.

Mr. MCCANN. You didn't do that?

Mr. YOUNG. We didn't fire them and replace them with set erectors. Mr. MCCANN. Well, you took on some more, didn't you?

Mr. YOUNG. We took on the set erectors.

Mr. MCCANN. That you didn't need, because you were ordered to take them on?

Mr. YOUNG. They were doing

Mr. MCCANN. Let's get past all the nicety of this and get down to brass tacks.

Mr. YOUNG. You want me to give you a point blank answer and I want to give you a truthful answer.

Mr. MCCANN. I want you to give me a truthful answer, but I want to get right at the situation. You had to hire men after the date of this meeting, and you didn't have them before?

Mr. YOUNG. Yes, sir.

Mr. MCCANN. And you didn't need them.

Mr. YOUNG. We didn't need them. We gave that to the carpenters. Mr. MCCANN. You had to take them and you gave some of them work otherwise.

Mr. YOUNG. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. That is all. Thank you.

Mr. KEARNS. That is all.

Mr. MCCANN. Mr. Callahan. Mr. Callahan is not here. Who is representing the Nassour Studio?

TESTIMONY OF EDWARD NASSOUR, OWNER OF NASSO

(The witness was duly sworn.)

Mr. MCCANN. Please state your name and you

Mr. NASSOUR. Edward Nassour, 3043 Holly
Mr. MCCANN. What is your business or occ
Mr. NASSOUR. I am owner of Nassour Stud
Mr. MCCANN. How long have you been i

Mr. NASSOUR. About 10 years.

Mr. MCCANN. Have you had any problems during that time?
Mr. NASSOUR. Yes, I have had.

Mr. MCCANN. Involving labor relations?

Mr. NASSOUR. Well, just lately I have had a lot of problems.

Mr. MCCANN. Would you please tell us in your own language what they are, involving "feather bedding," jurisdictional strikes, and what not?

Mr. NASSOUR. Well, I am trying to build a motion-picture studio. I have completed a part of it, and we have quite a large program of completing the studio, but like Mr. Chadwick said, I cater to the independent producers, and this labor situation with jurisdictional strikes is affecting me and possibly would stop me from completing the program. In turn, I would eventually, after the program is completed, employ a few hundred people, and up to this point I don't know what to do or what is going to happen, and it is hard enough to build a studio without having the trouble from a lot of other things.

Mr. MCCANN. Do you have any difficulty between the carpenters and the IATSE?

Mr. NASSOUR. Well, in my position at the moment it is a little different.

Mr. MCCANN. Tell us what the problem is, if any, which you have. Mr. NASSOUR. I rent, for instance-I have Pine Thomas, who are independent producers releasing through Paramount. They shoot their pictures at my studio and they are independent producers and they have the problem of the jurisdictional strike, and I don't have it at the moment because I don't hire any of the crafts, because I am not hiring any crew, except on the construction of the building. If I hired anybody I might get in a fight where I can't build my studio, so I will not do certain things and it is hard enough to handle this situation. without having to worry about the labor situation.

Mr. MCCANN. Will you tell us about your building program briefly, if you can? Do you have any jurisdictional problem there?

Mr. NASSOUR. Well, I haven't had any as far as problems up to this minute, but I might, in fact, they have stated in the papers that I might have additional cost of the program, or I may have to quit in stopping the construction of their work due to a jurisdictional strike. Mr. MCCANN. Is that all that you have to offer, sir? Can you give us any more information or do you have any problems that you think we ought to know about as a congressional committee? We would like to hear from you fully.

Mr. NASSOUR. Well, my problem again, like I said, is I am trying to build a studio and I would create work for a lot of people. If I have a jurisdictional strike, I don't know whether I might just abandon the whole idea, if I can't do the things that I want to do. In fact, I can't continue, not knowing from day to day whether I will get materials released. I have got contracts for a lot of things, but I don't know what to do or what is going to happen. A man who is investing his money in trying to do something, if he has to be right on the fence at all times, it takes too much out of you.

Mr. MCCANN. Thank you very much, sir.

Mr. KEARNS. Mr. Counsel, the hearing will stand adjourned until 2 p. m.

(Whereupon at 12 noon, a recess was taken until 2 p. m.)

AFTER RECESS

Pursuant to the recess, the hearing was resumed at 2 p. m.

Mr. KEARNS. The hearing will be in order.

Mr. MCCANN. Miss Dorothy Costello, please.

TESTIMONY OF DOROTHY JUNE COSTELLO, DANCER, EARL
CARROLL THEATER

(The witness was duly sworn.)

Mr. MCCANN. Miss Costello, will you please state your full name? Miss COSTELLO. Miss Dorothy June Costello.

Mr. MCCANN. Where do you reside?

Miss COSTELLO. 4412 Kingswell Avenue, Los Angeles.

Mr. MCCANN. By whom are you employed?

Miss COSTELLO. Mr. Earl Carroll.

Mr. MCCANN. How long have you been employed by him?
Miss COSTELLO. Four years.

Mr. MCCANN. What do you do?

Miss COSTELLO. I dance.

Mr. MCCANN. Do you and your sister constitute a team?
Miss COSTELLO. Yes.

Mr. MCCANN. Will you tell the committee just what your experience has been with Mr. Carroll, whether he has been a nice employer, whether you have enjoyed being there, and what it would mean to you if this place was closed up?

Miss COSTELLO. Well, I have enjoyed working for Mr. Carroll and he has always been very nice. We have had a few little difficulties, but otherwise it has been very nice working there, and excellent conditions. If his place closed, I would have to go back to New York, and it would mean traveling, and his place is a steady job, which it is very difficult to find.

Mr. MCCANN. In other words, there is no place like his place in this whole area where you could work?

Miss COSTELLO. That is true.

Mr. MCCANN. And you would have to go as far as New York, and then you would not have a job 52 weeks a year?

Miss COSTELLO. No.

Mr. MCCANN. So it is your desire that Mr. Earl Carroll's place of business should continue to operate?

Miss COSTELLO. Yes.

Mr. MCCANN. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. KEARNS. Miss Costello, do you know the members of the orchestra there pretty well? Is there a good sociability between the show cast and the orchestra?

Miss COSTELLO. Yes; I have friendship with three or four of them. Mr. KEARNS. Do you consider that a good orchestra playing there? Miss COSTELLO. Yes.

Mr. KEARNS. That is fine. All right. That is all I want to hear. Mr. MCCANN. Miss Ruth Costello.