The special subcommittee met, pursuant to recess and subsequent postponement, at 10:55 a.m., in room 224, Old Senate Office Building. Present: Senators Stennis (chairman), Thurmond, and Smith. Also present: Special subcommittee staff: James T. Kendall, chief counsel.

PROCEEDINGS

Senator THURMOND (presiding). The subcommittee will come to order.

Our witnesses today, I believe, are General Williams, and Lieutenant Colonel Joyce, from the New York National Guard. We are glad to have you gentlemen here.

I think you gentlemen had better stand and be sworn, before we

start.

The evidence you give in this hearing shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

General WILLIAMS. I do.

Colonel JOYCE. I do.

TESTIMONY OF MAJ. GEN. COLLIN P. WILLIAMS, COMMANDING GENERAL, 27TH ARMORED DIVISION, NEW YORK ARMY NATIONAL GUARD, AND PRESIDENT OF THE MILITIA ASSOCIATION OF NEW YORK; AND LT. COL. RAYMAND FRANCIS JOYCE, JR., NEW YORK ARMY NATIONAL GUARD

Senator THURMOND. Senator Smith, I don't know how long you can be here. Would you like to ask some questions first?

Senator SMITH. Thank you very much, but I am going over to the Armed Services Committee at 10:30. I do not have any questions. Senator THURMOND. Mr. Kendall?

Mr. KENDALL. I have no questions, Senator.

I would suggest that General Williams' biographical sketch be placed in the record. Also, the sketch of Lieutenant Colonel Joyce.

2661

WILLIAMS AND JOYCE BIOGRAPHIES

Senator THURMOND. Without objection we will place the biographical sketches of Maj. Gen. Collin P. Williams and Lt. Col. Raymond Joyce in the record.

(The biographical sketches referred to follow :)

BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH OF MAJOR GENERAL COLLIN P. WILLIAMS

Major General Collin P. Williams, Commanding General, 27th Armored Division, New York Army National Guard, and President of the Militia Association of New York.

Born in Lowville, New York on July 14, 1910-raised and educated in Syracuse, New York and graduated from Syracuse University in 1933 with A.B. degree and commissioned as reserve 2d Lieutenant of Infantry resulting from participation in R.O.T.C.

Ordered into Federal service in November 1940 as 1st Lieutenant and promoted successively to final active duty rank of Lieutenant Colonel in January 1943. Served in European Theater of Operations as an Infantry Battalion Commander.

Released from active duty in December 1945 and reentered U.S. Army Officer Reserve Corps.

Entered State service in 1947 as a member of the New York Army National Guard and served as battalion and regimental commander until April 1957, when assigned as assistant division commander and subsequently promoted to Brigadier General. Present assignment dates back to October 1959. Federally recognized in present rank November 16, 1960.

Civilian occupation-general insurance agent.

Resides in Syracuse, New York with wife and three children.

BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH OF RAYMOND FRANCIS JOYCE, JR., LT. COL., NEW YORK ARMY NATIONAL GUARD

Born in Albany, New York, on January 8, 1923, the first of 12 children. Graduate of Christian Brothers Academy, Albany and Siena College, Loudonville, New York.

Enlisted in the NYNG on July 4, 1940-inducted into federal service on 27 January 1941.

Attained rank of First Sgt. as an enlisted man.

Graduated as a Second Lieutenant from the Tank Destroyer OCS on September 10, 1943.

Served in the European Theater as platoon leader, executive officer, and commanding officer with Company L, 329 Infantry, 83rd Div.

Decorations include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, and Combat Infantry Badge. Separated from federal service in February 1946 and has served ever since in the Reserve and National Guard.

Was Professor of Military Science and taught English and History at Christian Brothers Academy, Albany for ten years.

Presently assigned as an assistant operations training and intelligence officer in Headquarters, New York Army National Guard. Married-has four daughters and two sons.

FUNCTIONS PERFORMED BY WILLIAMS

Senator THURMOND. Gentlemen, we are pleased to have the opportunity of discussing with you the manner in which the New York National Guard and related civilian organizations, specifically the militia associations, in that State, are supporting cold war training programs and civilian educational efforts dealing with communism. We have had an opportunity to study various publications of the New York State Military and Naval Affairs Division, as well as the transcript of the 77th Annual Conference of the Militia Association

of New York, and from these it appears that the National Guard personnel of New York have been very active in promoting a better comprehension of cold war training objectives in their area of responsibility.

General Williams, as the commander of the 27th Armored Division, and president of the Militia Association in New York, could you outline for us briefly your functions in these roles?

General WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. As the commanding general of the 27th Armored Division, New York National Guard, I have no specific function dealing with this subject. The National Guard operates under a training program devised by the U.S. Army Continental Command, and there is no provision for Reserve components to have any troop information or education of any nature, with the exception of a mandatory subject recurring annually on code of conduct, which is perhaps indirectly related to the subject at hand.

As far as my position as the president of the Militia Association of New York, the objectives of this association are generally to promote a sound national and New York State defense in any manner possible to us, but primarily through the maintenance of a strong and ready National Guard, both Army, Air, and in New York State we also have a naval militia. We believe from a military standpoint the proper training and readiness of these units should be supported in the interests of national defense.

In 1958, at the annual conference of the Militia Association of the State of New York, then known as the Army and Air National Guard and Naval Militia Association of the State of New York, it was first suggested that this association make some effort to educate the public concerning the nature and scope of the Communist threat. Our principal speaker on that occasion was Dr. Frank Barnett, who delivered a very stirring speech to us, and vividly portrayed what could well happen during the next decade to the American people if we continued to have apathy concerning this very serious threat.

It was suggested at that meeting by the officer who was then president of the association, one Captain Burke of the Naval Reserve, that the association take some positive means to accomplish this suggestion.

Nothing was done by the association, nor by the National Guard as such in this respect, but a number of the officers did attend national strategy seminars at Forth McNair here and similar seminars conducted by the 1st U.S. Army. Subsequently, these individuals, as individuals, not as members of the association or as guardsmen, did speak before a large number of groups of civilians on this subject, by invitation. I have no direct personal knowledge of this activity. Yearly thereafter the subject came up for further discussion in our conferences, and after the meeting in 1960, when I was elected president of the association, we received somewhat of a mandate from the floor of the convention to do something about this matter. So in 1961, the executive committee of the association decided to run several meetings for our own membership in which we would have one or more speakers qualified on the subject of the Communist threat and their manner of operating, and we did hold four such meetings in upstate New York during the summer of 1961. These meetings were attended by area members of the association on a voluntary basis.

In each of these cases we did have a qualified speaker who spoke for approximately 1 hour to the people so gathered.

Then in the fall of 1961, at our annual conference, held at Kiamesha Lake, N.Y., our educational program was devoted exclusively to this subject, and we had a panel of speakers all well qualified in the subject-who gave us a considerable amount of background information.

Further, nothing has been done by the Militia Association of New York in this field and no further action by the association is contemplated at this time.

Senator THURMOND. Is there anything else now, or is that all you have to say on this subject?

General WILLIAMS. Not on that subject, sir.

ROCKEFELLER LETTER ENCOURAGING NEW YORK MILITIA ASSOCIATION

PROGRAM

Senator THURMOND. General Williams, I notice with considerable interest during the annual meeting of the Militia Association of New York, held September 7 to 10, 1961, Governor Rockefeller sent you a letter encouraging your program. I would like to quote just one paragraph from this letter, which I think is most applicable to the cold war situation as it relates to the State Guard units.

The preservation of peace in the world demands firmness as well as patience -patience to negotiate a peace, firmness to insist on peace with honor. The combat readiness of the militia units is an eloquent testimonial of our ability to speak with firmness.

I think the Governor of New York has made indirect reference to a key point in dealing with communism, and that is that we must at all times be combat ready, and even in the so-called peacetime we must be firm and insist on remaining true to our way of life.

From this letter and other material in your program of the 77th Annual Convention of the Militia Association, it is obvious that you are pursuing not only objectives of the Governor, but those of the Department of the Army.

Could you outline for us, General, to what extent cold war training is being provided for Guard personnel.

General WILLIAMS. There is no

Senator THURMOND. Other than what you have said.

General WILLIAMS. Other than what I have said, there is none, sir.

COLD WAR TRAINING GIVEN GUARDSMEN REACHES LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE

Senator THURMOND. The cold war training given the National Guardsmen automatically reaches the civilian communities throughout the State, does it not?

General WILLIAMS. Yes, it does. We felt that the information put out in the series of meetings to which I previously referred did reach a large number of people, starting with the families of the members who attended and reaching through them to perhaps a number of their friends.

QUESTION OF GUIDANCE RECEIVED BY NEW YORK NATIONAL GUARD FROM DOD ON COLD WAR TRAINING

Senator THURMOND. During his testimony before the subcommittee, General Hammond, the Vice Chief of Staff of the U.S. Army, stated, and I quote: "We are at war with communism."

And since the threat is uniformly serious, both within and outside our national borders, the civilian components of our military services, including the Army, naval, Marine, and National Guard units, must be thoroughly aware of the totality of this threat. Could you outline for us, General Williams, to what extent you are receiving guidance on cold war education from the National Guard Bureau of the Department of Defense.

General WILLIAMS. To the best of my knowledge, sir, we are receiving no such guidance.

Senator THURMOND. Colonel Joyce, without your assignmentColonel JOYCE. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND (continuing). To the National Guard of New York.

Colonel JOYCE. I hope you have no difficulty understanding me, and I hope you will excuse a little harshness in my voice. I am recovering from laryngitis. I am presently assigned to the G-3 section. I am an assistant operations training and intelligence officer in headquarters of the New York Army National Guard. In this capacity I work on training programs and other matters pertaining to training.

Senator THURMOND. You are assigned in the office of the State military and naval affairs division?

Colonel JOYCE. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. I wonder if you could elaborate on the extent to which guidance is obtained from the Department of Defense in cold war training.

Colonel JOYCE. At present there is very little, if any, guidance from the Department of Defense on this particular subject. The National Guard, in the little time that it has available for training, is occupied almost exclusively in the necessity of meeting the requirements put out by the U.S. Continental Army Command, the training requirements. And there is no time provided for this activity.

GUIDANCE RECEIVED BY NEW YORK NATIONAL GUARD FROM CONTINENTAL ARMY COMMAND

Senator THURMOND. Has the Continental Army Command provided cold war training guidance?

Colonel JOYCE. Well, at present there is a program out on counterinsurgency training, and every unit in the National Guard will receive 2 hours of training on this subject prior to June 30 of this year. Other than that, the only information that we have received, I would say, is the 1st Army Intelligence summary, which unfortunately is classified "secret," and therefore it is very difficult to disseminate this information to the field or to the troops in the National Guard.