Mr. HOFFMAN. Down in the next paragraph you say: The President shall establish such advisory boards or committees― and so forth. Mr. HINES. Yes. Mr. HOFFMAN. He has those now, hasn't he? He Mr. HINES. Not in connection with this type of legislation. has boards, advisory boards. Are you familiar with the labor management committee that existed in the War Manpower Commission and in other agencies, and the magnificent job they did? Mr. HOFFMAN. That paragraph does not require the President to do anything he cannot do now in his annual message or any message that he desires to send to Congress, does it? Mr. HINES. I presume the President could by Executive directive set up advisory boards in connection with the functioning of any particular agency or department. Mr. HOFFMAN. Down in the next paragraph there is this state ment: We have accepted the principle of social insurance to provide incomes for workers involuntarily unemployed. In your opinion, does not the cost of that ultimately fall upon the consumer? Mr. HINES. We have accepted the principle of social insurance, providing insurance for workers involuntarily unemployed. What is the question? Mr. HOFFMAN. The question is, Doesn't the cost of that social insurance fall ultimately upon the consumer of goods manufactured? Mr. HINES. Well, it would be a long way round. It comes from a pay roll imposed pay roll. Mr. HOFFMAN. Now you are going Mr. HINES (interposing). Wait a minute. You wanted an answer, Congressman. I have got to answer you intelligently. Mr. HOFFMAN. You answered it. Mr. HINES. NO; I did not-imposed upon pay rolls in some States and from pay rolls and workers' contributions in other States. In some States employees make a contribution to that 3 percent tax, too, so I don't think it would fall entirely upon the consumers. Mr. HOFFMAN. And if the worker is to have enough to live on, as he should, then the cost of this insurance must be taken from what he would otherwise get, and must be reflected in the cost of the product? Mr. HINES. Well, you have a pool method there. Mr. HOFFMAN. I understand that. Mr. HINES. And in many instances, or in some instances, the workers would derive a benefit from unemployment compensation where others would not have any need to call upon unemployment compensation. Incidentally, don't forget that that tax is reduced in many instances where merit rating prevails, or in other words, where employees give steady employment, more steady employment than in the usual case among other employers. So the tax is not always as high in some instances as it is in others. Mr. HOFFMAN. But in the long run and in the end, this money for social insurance comes out of the consumer and is added to the cost of what he gets. Mr. HINES. Well, in the long run everything that we have in the way of governmental activity, everything that we have in the way of social insurance, old-age security, comes out of pay rolls, and perhaps you could eventually trace it down to the consumer. Again I say it is a pooled effort. Mr. HOFFMAN. Further down in the paragraph you say: There must be willingness to get the facts and fact the consequences by individual managements as well as industries, so that exercise of the right to do business shall be accompanied by obligation to plan for sustained employment for the work force that levels out pay in enabling workers to have rising standards of living. Perhaps I have asked it before, but sholudn't there be an obligation also upon the employee to assist in that planning for sustained employment? Mr. HINES. I don't know how you could place such an obligation on an employee. Mr. HOFFMAN. You don't know how you could?. Mr. HINES. No. Mr. HOFFMAN. One way, I would think, would be to enter into an agreement and abide by that agreement to work continuously-I don't mean forever, but I mean for a stated time. Mr. HINES. Suppose he did not work continuously or work as long as the agreement provides for? Mr. HOFFMAN. That gets us back to the old question, Should he be required to? Mr. HINES. How are you going to require him? Mr. HOFFMAN. He might be deprived of benefits under the National Labor Relations Act. Mr. HINES. Suppose he don't belong to a union? Mr. HINES. But suppose he doesn't? Mr. HOFFMAN. All right. I am talking about the union man now. Mr. HINES. I am asking you to find some way to require him. Mr. HINES. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if I could make a suggestion, with the acquiescence of our friend Representative Hoffman. I believe he is sincerely endeavoring to analyze this proposition, not only the bill but my statement, and I am wondering if he and I could get together some day in his office and sit down and have a heart to heart talk and go over this thing and perhaps come back before the committee and report to you that we have had a meeting of the minds. Would that be agreeable to you? Mr. HOFFMAN. What I am trying to do is to make a record so that when the bill comes before the House the Members can understand the attitude and testimony of the witnesses. Mr. HINES. Let me say with all due respect to you, if you are trying to put me in a position where I am going to answer questions the way you want me to for the purpose of making a record to use to the detriment of this bill, I am going to permit you to do it; but if you want to sit down in your office and talk with me, I think that perhaps if you are sincere and I am sincere we will reach an understanding on this thing, and we will come back and report to the committee that we have a meeting of the minds. Mr. HOFFMAN. My concern grows out of my fear that while we are all in favor of the announced objectives of the bill, some of us do not understand just how it is to be made to work, and that is what we are trying to learn. Am I right, Mr. Chairman? That is about the sum and substance of it, isn't it? The CHAIRMAN. I think so. Mr. HINES. I think that is a fair statement. I came here this afternoon for the purpose not of being techincal or anything of the sort, but to enter into a discussion of this thing to develop as much light as we possibly could on it. Mr. HOFFMAN. His point is good, Mr. Chairman, no quorum. The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any more questions? Mr. HOFFMAN. Yes, I have a few questions, but as long as the point has been made I don't want to have a record after the point has been made. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will stand adjourned until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning. (Whereupon, at 5:05 p. m., the committee adjourned until 10 a. m., Wednesday, October 17, 1945.) FULL EMPLOYMENT ACT OF 1945 WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 17, 1945 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, The committee met at 10 a. m., Hon. Carter Manasco (chairman) presiding. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will please come to order. Mr. Charles A. Eaton of Newark, N. J., president of the National Association of State Chambers of Commerce, is here, and we will hear him at this time. STATEMENT OF CHARLES A. EATON, JR., PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF STATE CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE, NEWARK, N. J. Mr. EATON. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I am Charles A. Eaton. I am president of the National Association of State Chambers of Commerce, Newark, N. J. For the purpose of informing you why we are here this morning, I would like to make a very brief statement for the record which will indicate the organizations which are members of the National Association of State Chambers of Commerce. Mr. HOFFMAN. Mr. Chairman and Mr. Cochran, is this another one of these statements that they are putting in, because what I have before me apparently is a statement by Dr. Spahr. Mr. EATON. No, no, Mr. Hoffman, this is not a statement by Mr. Spahr. Mr. Spahr will make a statement a little later on, but this is my own statement that I am going to make. If you will but hear me out, I am sure you will find that my statement will be clear as to its intent. The CHAIRMAN. Let me make this statement for the record: the other day the president of my State chamber of commerce, called up and said there were some 26 State chambers of commerce that wanted to testify before the committee. I said that in all probability they will all testify to the same thing, so why could they not agree upon a statement and save these 26 people from coming up here and coming before this committee one by one. So, they prepared this statement, a statement upon which they all agreed; is that correct, Mr. Eaton? Mr. EATON. That is correct. The CHAIRMAN. That is the statement, and it is a statement which represents all of these various people. It simply saves having them |