Bennett, Hon. Charles E., a Representative in Congress from the State Bolling, Hon. Richard, a Representative in Congress from the State Dole, Hon. Robert J., U.S. Senator from the State of Kansas- Jennings, Hon. W. Pat, Clerk of the House of Representatives. Mickum, George B., III, chairman of the Committee on Regulation of Lobbying of the Bar Association of the District of Columbia____ Miller, Lambert, National Association of Manufacturers. Schwengel, Hon. Fred, a Representative in Congress from the State Smith, Milton A., general counsel, Chamber of Commerce of the Mickum, George B., III, chairman of the Committee on Regulation of Lobbying of the Bar Association of the District of Columbia: Appendix A.-Interpretations, definitions, and uses of the term Appendix A.-Federal Regulation of Lobbying Act-Implications Appendix B.-Legislative Activities Disclosure Act__ Thrower, Hon. Randolph W., Commissioner, Internal Revenue Serv- Valeo, Francis R., Secretary of the U.S. Senate, letter to Chairman REGULATION OF LOBBYING THURSDAY, OCTOBER 1, 1970 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS OF OFFICIAL CONDUCT, Washington, D.C. The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:10 a.m., in room 2359, Rayburn House Office Building, the Honorable Melvin Price (chairman of the committee) presiding. Present Representatives Price, Teague, Holifield, Stafford, Williams and Reid. Staff: John M. Swanner, staff director; Bennett Wolfe, Robert G. Allett and Mrs. Marianne Mackenzie. [H. Res. 1031, 91st Cong., second sess.] RESOLUTION Resolved, That (a) clause 19 of rule XI of the Rules of the House of Representatives is amended by inserting immediately below paragraph (b) thereof the following new paragraphs: "(c) Measures relating to activities designed to (1) assist in defeating, passing, or amending any legislation by the House or (2) influence, directly or indirectly, the passage or defeat of any legislation by the House. "(d) Measures relating to the raising, reporting, and use of campaign contributions for candidates for the office of Representative in the House of Representatives and of Resident Commissioner to the United States from Puerto Rico." (b) Clause 19 of rule XI of the Rules of the House of Representatives is further amended by inserting immediately below paragraph (d) thereof the following new paragraph: "(g) The Committee on Standards of Official Conduct, acting as a whole or by subcommittee, is authorized to conduct investigations and studies, from time to time, of the laws, rules, regulations, procedures, practices, and activities pertaining to (1) lobbying activities as described in subparagraphs (1) and (2) of paragraph (c) of this clause, or (2) the raising, reporting, and use of political campaign contributions as described in paragraph (d) of this clause, or (3) both. Each such investigation and study may include all pertinent matters which would assist the Congress in connection with necessary remedial legislation. The committee may obtain the views of all parties familiar with the subject matter covered by the investigation and study. The committee shall report to the House (or to the Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of each such investigation and study, together with such recommendations as the committee considers advisable.". SEC. 2. The Committee on Standards of Official Conduct shall conduct its first investigation and study under authority of the amendments made by the first section of this resolution during the remainder of the Ninety-first Congress, and shall submit to the House (or to the Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) at the earliest practicable date prior to the close of the Ninety-first Congress, a report of the results of that investigation and study. Such report shall contain such recommendations as the committee considers advisable, including a draft of proposed legislation to carry out such recommendations. SEC. 3. The following technical and conforming amendments are hereby made to clause 19 of rule XI of the Rules of the House of Representatives: (1) Paragraph (c) of clause 19 (A) is redesignated as paragraph (e) of such clause; and (B) as so redesignated, is amended by striking out "paragraph (d) of this clause" and inserting in lieu thereof "paragraph (f) of this clause". (2) Paragraph (d) of clause 19 is redesignated as paragraph (f) of such clause. (3) Paragraph (e) of clause 19 is redesignated as paragraph (h) of such clause. Amend the title so as to read: "Amending clause 19 of rule XI of the Rules of the House of Representatives with respect to lobbying practices and political campaign contributions affecting the House of Representatives, and for other purposes." Chairman PRICE. The committee will come to order. The committee is meeting today in response to House Resolution 1031, adopted last July 8, directing the Committee on Standards of Official Conduct to conduct investigations and studies of the need for remedial legislation in two areas-lobbying practices and campaign finances. Today we shall consider only one of these subjects-lobbying. Later hearings are planned on the second half of our assignment-campaign money. Three witnesses are scheduled for today. They are Mr. George B. Mickum III, representing the Bar Association of the District of Columbia; Lambert Miller, general counsel for the National Association of Manufacturers; and Milton A. Smith, general counsel for the Chamber of Commerce of the United States. Mr. George D. Webster, general counsel for the American Society of Association Executives, originally scheduled, notified the committee late yesterday that he would be unable to appear. It will be an honor to hear from these gentlemen, whose views, I am sure, will be most helpful to the committee in the performance of its assignment. I want to extend the committee's thanks to each of them for taking the time and trouble to appear before us. Next week we have two sessions scheduled to obtain the views of interested Members of Congress. Those hearings are scheduled for 2 p.m. on October 7 and 8. Now we should like to get underway with Mr. Mickum leading off. Mr. Mickum, will you come around? Mr. MICKUM. Mr. Chairman. Chairman PRICE. Mr. Mickum, you may present your statement. STATEMENT OF GEORGE B. MICKUM III, CHAIRMAN OF THE BAR ASSOCIATION OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA'S COMMITTEE ON LOBBYING Mr. MICKUM. My name is, as you know, George B. Mickum III. I am a partner in the firm of Steptoe & Johnson, engaged in the private practice of law, and chairman of the Bar Association of the District of Columbia's Committee on Lobbying. Our committee has been operating now about 4 years, following the first thought that the new legislative reorganization act which contained title V relating to lobbying would be passed. That was S. 355, as I recall. I want to thank the committee really from the bottom of my heart for the opportunity to appear. Believe it or not, we tried for 4 years to get a hearing-to get someone to listen to the bar association's ideas on this matter. This is a matter that is of peculiar interest to lawyers in the District of Columbia. Not only are we called on probably more often than most to advise people as to what the law means and whether they are required to register, what they are supposed to report and that sort of thing, than any other bar association surely in the country, but a lot of our members are also lobbyists. So the matter is vital to this bar association. Now, I have submitted to the committee a written statement which would take quite a while to read, and if the committee would permit me, I would rather just speak extemporaneously and summarize the bar associaton's position. Chairman PRICE. You may proceed in that manner, Mr. Mickum, and your complete statement will be included in the record. Mr. MICKUM. Very good, Mr. Chairman. First I would like to address myself to existing law. The 1946 act is seriously deficient in many ways. What constitutes lobbying, for example, is nowhere defined in that statute. Now, that definition, of course, is pivotal in determining to what the act applies. The Supreme Court in the Harriss case made a definition by-relying on legislative history and other things-and limited the concept of lobbying to direct contact with a Member of Congress, thus excluding the staffs of members and committee staff members. Under the Supreme Court opinion lobbying definitely includes only direct contact with a Member of Congress. And although the opinion in that case made it pretty clear that Congress also was very interested in finding out about indirect lobbying-artificially stimulated letter campaigns and other means of getting communications to Members of Congressthe opinion, although it upheld the constitutionality of the statute, simply wrote that phase of the statute out of existence. Now, I think all would agree that among the most important considerations this committee should have is to pass a statute that gets at this indirect lobbying. Recently I saw in the Record a reference to a television program in which some Senators had invited people to write their Congressmen and there was some outrage on the part of some about that activity. But that is the type of thing that is not now covered in existing law and which definitely should be covered. Existing law having failed to tell us what lobbying is, leaves us in a further quandary hinging its applicability on a subjective determination of whether the principal purpose of an individual's activity or expenditure is to influence legislation. Does this mean that to meet the statutory test, one who spends a majority of his time talking to Members of Congress must register, or does it mean a majority of his money must be spent? No one knows whether it is time or money or maybe it is the result that is the determining factor under existing law. I want to emphasize that the quantitative basis for determining whether one should register is just impossible; it is not precise; it can't be precise. This is a highly subjective area and you certainly cannot be precise in advance. Now another problem with existing law is, suppose a corporation which could spend a great deal of money in lobbying, but because it doesn't spend anybody else's money, under existing law the corporation |