Delano Roosevelt, who said that we must so act as to justify the trust of those who have died.

The Byelorussian Delegation expresses the certainty that delegates of Franco will never be allowed into the General Assembly.

PRESIDENT: Mr. James Dunn, Delegate of the United States.
Mr. DUNN: Mr. President, I shall be brief.

The United States Delegation is in complete accord with the statement of interpretation made by the Delegation of Mexico and desires to associate itself with that declaration.

PRESIDENT (Speaking in French; English version as delivered by interpreter follows): The last two statements. First of all, His Excellency Mr. Serrato, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Uruguay.

Mr. SERRATO (Speaking in Spanish; translation follows): I am not going to deliver a speech; only a few words in answer to the very timely suggestion given us by Mr. Rolin.

I understood that the statement made by the Delegate of Mexico could be included merely under a separate title in the minutes of this meeting. But the President has correctly recalled a provision in the regulations under which this could not be done without an affirmative vote by the Commission, and he has warned that such a vote would mean sharing the points of view set forth by the Delegation of Mexico. This fact compels us to express our position publicly and clearly. I say that I shall vote in favor of the request to include in the minutes the interpretative opinion which has been set forth.

And it could not be otherwise, since the country which I have the honor to represent mobilized, as far back as September 1939, its opinion unanimously and keenly in favor of the cause that has been so heroically and gallantly defended by the United Nations. It was my privilege to be the chairman of the first Pro-Allies National Committee which conducted a tireless campaign of total adherence to the cause of democracy in the crisis created by the Axis forces. My country is small in territorial extent and in material capacity for war, but it possesses the greatness of its ideals and the strength of its convictions. That is why it accorded to the cause of the Allies its full spiritual and moral adherence, but it also had the courage to meet the contingencies created by the Graf Spee episode and to be represented symbolically on the battlefields of North Africa, Italy, and France by a group of young men who voluntarily offered their life and blood. This background necessarily shows the only possible intentions with which we have collaborated in the drafting of the text now under discussion.

Consequently, I must declare that Uruguay is in perfect agreement with the juridical interpretation, given by the Delegate of Mexico, of the question as to who can be invited to participate in the government of the community of nations desiring international peace and security.

I dispense with the political grounds given by the Delegate of Mexico personally in support of his interpretation. The text of the latter is very clear, and the Delegation of Uruguay will vote for it, since it is the spirit of such interpretation which has mobilized public opinion in my country.

PRESIDENT (Speaking in French; English version as delivered by interpreter follows): The last speaker, the Delegate of Guatemala, Francisco Villagran, has asked to speak for only one minute.

Mr. VILLAGRAN (speaking in Spanish; English version as delivered by interpreter follows): Mr. President, Honorable Fellow Delegates, the Delegation of Guatemala considers that the interpretative declaration presented to us by the Delegation of Mexico truly expresses the spirit of the delegations here convened in the work of drawing up this world Charter. The people of Guatemala broke relations with the Franco government. I feel that it is my duty to express here our whole-hearted support of the declaration presented by the Delegation of Mexico.

Mr. MAZA (Chile) (speaking in Spanish; English version as delivered by interpreter follows): I wish only to express, Mr. President, that the Delegation of Chile supports whole-heartedly the spirit and the text of the declaration of Mexico.

PRESIDENT (Speaking in French; English version as delivered by interpreter follows): Is there any objection? As there are no remarks, the statement made by the Delegation from Mexico will be inserted in the records of the Commission as having had the approval of the Commission.

Approved by acclamation.

PRESIDENT (Speaking in English): The next meeting will take place I should say at half-past eight, but, as it is already ten past seven, we will make it a quarter to nine.

Verbatim Minutes of Fourth Meeting of Commission I, June 19

Doc. 1186, June 24

PRESIDENT (Mr. Rolin, Belgium; speaking in French; English version as delivered by interpreter follows): The meeting is called to order. In this afternoon's session we finally voted on the interpretive statement which had been submitted by the Delegation of Mexico on paragraph 2 of Chapter III. If there is no remark on those two paragraphs I shall consider them adopted. The first two paragraphs are adopted. Mr. Malcolm Davis will now read paragraphs 3 and 4 of Chapter III.

EXECUTIVE OFFICER:

The Organization may at any time suspend from the exercise of the rights and privileges of membership any member of the Organization against which preventive or enforcement action shall have been taken by the Security Council. The exercise of these rights and privileges may be restored in accordance with the procedure laid down in Chapter paragraph -·

The Organization may expel from the Organization any member which persistently violates the principles contained in the Charter.

PRESIDENT (speaking in French; English version as delivered by interpreter follows): I shall now call on Mr. Alfredo MachadoHernandez, Delegate of Venezuela.

Mr. MACHADO-HERNANDEZ (speaking in Spanish; English version as delivered by interpreter follows): Mr. President, as Delegate of Venezuela, I wish to make a short exposition with reference to the matter of withdrawal from the International Organization, as well as to the effects of the modification of the Charter of the Organization—in other words, with reference to matters contained in Chapters III and XI. I shall take advantage of this opportunity to make a joint declaration on those matters. As regards the problem of establishing in the

Charter a provision that shall allow or prohibit the withdrawal of the members of the Organization, the Delegate of Venezuela delivered a written statement to the secretariat of Committee I/2.

Now, neither in the summaries of the meetings of the Committee nor in the report of the Rapporteur is any reference made or any allusion whatsoever to this statement. Therefore, the Delegation of Venezuela believes that it is necessary to reiterate that statement here in the Commission, so that it may be inserted in the minutes of today's meeting. We do not insist that it be inserted in the report of the Rapporteur. It will be satisfactory to us to have the insertion made in the minutes of today's meeting. The Delegation accepts that, in accordance with the text of the Dumbarton Oaks Proposals, nothing be expressed in the Charter regarding the duration of the union or on the matter of withdrawal of the member states.

In the opinion of the Delegation, the notion of perpetuity is undoubtedly incompatible with the nature of the treaty or convention of association such as the one that will be contained in the Charter.

And this will constitute an international obligation of an undefined duration, with consequences of such character as are derived from the eventual ending of the engagement by withdrawal of the parties.

Therefore, the Delegation of Venezuela accepts the interpretation that silence on this point as regards the Charter entirely safeguards a principle of the common right, according to which it is considered as an implicit right, the right of voluntary withdrawal of members of the Organization.

Also, on the ratification and coming into force of the amendments, the Delegation of Venezuela, within the deliberations carried on in Committee I/2, and on other occasions, expressed its opinion that, in virtue of the provisions of the Constitution of the Republic, it cannot accept the principle that any amendment that may eventually come into force as far as Venezuela is concerned will not need to be ratified by Venezuela before it becomes obligatory on that country.

Therefore, with the drafting of paragraph 2 of Chapter XI, the Delegation expressly declares and requests that this statement be entered in the minutes of the Commission, that it accepts this text with the explicit understanding that, as regards the Charter as well as the amendments that may be made to it, whatever may be the method used for adopting them, they will not obligate Venezuela until they have been ratified in accordance with the processes established by the national constitution of the country.

It must be understood that this declaration of principle does not minimize in any way the firm will of the Government and the people of Venezuela to cooperate in good faith in supporting the stability of the Organization in its future development and in the full achievement of its purposes.

PRESIDENT (speaking in French; English version as delivered by interpreter follows): No other delegation has asked to be recognized on Chapter III. I shall, therefore, consider the last two paragraphs as adopted.

Before we go on to Chapter IV, I shall call on the Rapporteur to read an extract from his report on Chapter III, the section relating to the withdrawal of members, which is to be found on page 4 of the English text.18

18 Ante, p. 507.

RAPPORTEUR (Gérard E. Lescot, Haiti, speaking in French; English version as delivered by interpreter follows): This is the paragraph from the report:

The Committee adopts the view that the Charter should not make express provision either to permit or to prohibit withdrawal from the Organization. The Committee deems that the highest duty of the nations which will become members is to continue their cooperation within the Organization for the preservation of international peace and security. If, however, a member because of exceptional circumstances feels constrained to withdraw, and leave the burden of maintaining international peace and security on the other members, it is not the purpose of the Organization to compel that member to continue its cooperation in the Organization.

It is obvious, in particular, that withdrawals or some other forms of dissolution of the Organization would become inevitable if, deceiving the hopes of humanity, the Organization was revealed to be unable to maintain peace or could do so only at the expense of law and justice.

Nor would it be the purpose of the Organization to compel a Member to remain in the Organization if its rights and obligations as such were changed by Charter amendment in which it has not concurred and which it finds itself unable to accept, or if an amendment duly accepted by the necessary majority in the Assembly or in a general conference fails to secure the ratification necessary to bring such amendment into effect.

It is for these considerations that the Committee has decided to abstain from recommending insertion in the Charter of a formal clause specifically forbidding or permitting withdrawal.

PRESIDENT (Speaking in French; English version as delivered by interpreter follows): I asked that this passage of the report should be read to you because it was the only one which had been formally accepted by the Committee, and I wanted to be sure that it met with the acceptance of the Commission also. Some minor drafting errors may have crept into the text either in this section or in other sections, and we shall be grateful if they are pointed out. But what we submit to you now is only the substance of that report. No remarks? The Delegate from Greece.

Mr. GOULIMIS: Mr. President, we all know how important this text is, and, of course, it is excusable that under the great pressure of time and circumstances this text was drawn rather hurriedly. I would, therefore, suggest that some latitude should be given to the Rapporteur so as to word it in accordance with the spirit of the decision of our Committee.

PRESIDENT: If you have any indications to give to him about that, he certainly will be glad to receive them.

PRESIDENT (speaking in French; English version as delivered by interpreter follows): If there are no further remarks, the passage which was read will be inserted in the final report of the Commission with any drafting amendments which may be suggested.

We shall now take Chapter IV, and I shall call on the Rapporteur to read the paragraphs.

RAPPORTEUR (Sayyid Jamil Daoud, Saudi Arabia): Chapter IV; Committee I/2.

[Here follows the report of the Rapporteur (General) of Committee I/2 on Chapter IV; see Doc. 1072, ante, p. 509.19]

19 The rapporteurs, in reading the reports of the committees to the commissions, sometimes departed slightly from the texts as approved by the committees and circulated to the members of the commissions. The versions read at the commission meetings have not been reprinted here.

PRESIDENT (Speaking in French; English version as delivered by interpreter follows): I wish to thank the Rapporteur for reading to us his whole report. Only the first two paragraphs of the draft resolution, the text to be submitted, will be read in French.

Are there any remarks on the first two paragraphs which were read? No remarks. The two paragraphs are adopted.

As regards paragraph 3, no delegation has asked to be recognized. DELEGATE OF FRANCE (Mr. de Beaumont, speaking in French; English version as delivered by interpreter follows): The French Delegation has asked to be allowed to make a few remarks in support of the paragraph submitted by the Committee.

PRESIDENT: I call on Mr. Guérin de Beaumont, Delegate of France. Mr. DE BEAUMONT (speaking in French; English version as delivered by interpreter follows): There is not much use in arguing in favor of a thesis which is already adopted by everybody, but the French Delegation, however, wish to be associated with the motion which is now before you and which we feel will shortly be carried, and we believe that the time is most appropriate for us to say a few words on the subject, because it is quite recently that for the first time in France women have taken an official part in public life. It is about a month ago that they were called upon, for the first time, to participate in the election of municipal assemblies. It may be thought curious that France should have waited so long. Some people in our country say -but that was a paradox-that because they were feminists they believed that women should not be allowed to take part in public life, and that is all the more strange because France is a country whose greatest hero in the past was a woman and whose greatest hero in the field of modern science was also a woman. And the two most famous places of pilgrimage for us are the stake at which Joan of Arc was burned and the laboratory in which Madame Curie worked on radium with her husband. If women were not asked to take part in public life in France earlier it may be rather because they did not show any particular interest in it; but in that case why did the Provisional Government of France decide to make them members of the electorate? Well, that was perhaps because the women in France, like the women in Rumania, in Belgium, and in many other countries during the last few years, showed amazing courage and strength which certainly compared favorably with that of men, and proved themselves thereby worthy of participating in public life. I should like to close these short remarks by reminding you of a few words which were exchanged between a man who was certainly not a feminist, that was Napoleon the First, and Madame de Stael. Napoleon the First told her one day that he did not like women to indulge in politics and she replied that in a country where women could be beheaded for what they did, and taken to the guillotine, it was only fair that they should be entitled to know why. During these last few years women have run dangers at least as great, and possibly greater often, than those which men ran; and we believe that they are thereby entitled to oppose the recurrence of those dangers and to associate with men in order to preserve the peace of the world.

PRESIDENT: I now recognize Mr. Fraser, Prime Minister and Delegate of New Zealand.

Mr. FRASER: Mr. President, Fellow Delegates, and Ladies and Gentlemen, I just have arisen to say a word or two of congratulation to the women delegates of the Conference. They deserve not only the con