Senator JOHNSON. Could you comply with my request or could one of the other gentlemen here do that? The bill says he can exercise military command, I assume, and you say he shall not exercise military command. Give me an illustration where, if he were given authority to exercise military command, it might not be in the best interests of the country.

General BRADLEY. I don't believe the bill does. We were trying to make it clear that he would not have it. We did not contend that the bill gave it to him, but we wanted to clarify it.

Senator JOHNSON. It would be unwise to give him military command?

General BRADLEY. We do not think you want that yet, if you ever want it. We do not believe you want that chairman ordering a division of the Army from one place to another without reference to the Secretary of the Army or the Secretary of Defense.

We think that should come down through the secretaries rather than the military adviser himself. This makes it clear that he would not. That was our idea in suggesting that change.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you mind if I interject there a moment, so that I understand this thing a little more clearly?

It was never contemplated in any of this legislation that there would be one military man who would run the show for all the services. You have put this in out of a superabundance of caution in order to prevent a misinterpretation?

General BRADLEY. That was our idea.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not think anybody on the committee wants any other interpretation put on it than the one you gentlemen have put here by way of clarification; but just so the record will be complete, without this language it would be possible for this man to exercise within the general scope of the operations given him by the President, namely, to attack Asia, or to attack France, or to attack England, all the stategy at the very highest level without any real regard for those who are now the Chiefs of Staff of the various three services. Isn't that correct?

Admiral DENFELD. I would think so, yes.

The CHAIRMAN. What you want to do is to have him preside over these meetings and carry the opinions of you gentlemen to the President for ultimate clarification and decision?

Admiral DENFELD. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead. I wanted to make sure that was clear. Senator HUNT. I am somewhat confused. We now today do have a Chief of Staff, do we not?

General BRADLEY. Of each service.

Senator HUNT. You do not have a Chief of Staff, such as General Marshall was?

General BRADLEY. I am Chief of Staff of the Army.

Senator HUNT. Just of the Army?

General BRADLEY. Yes, sir.

Senator HUNT. We do not have a Chief of Staff of all services?
General BRADLEY. No, sir.

Senator BYRD. Let me ask this: Would the Chiefs of Staff here present favor clarifying this amendment still further and stating that where there is a difference of opinion among the members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, that the chairman in consulting with the

President shall present not only his views but any divergent views of the members at the same time?

Admiral DENFELD. That is correct.

Senator BYRD. You would not object to an amendment of that kind?

Admiral DENFELD. I would not.

Senator BYRD. I think that is important. If he is to be the sole adviser to the President, if there is a division of opinion among the Chiefs of Staff, I think the other opinions should be expressed to the President as well as his own.

I just ask whether anyone present sees any objection to that amendment if the committee sees fit to adopt it.

The CHAIRMAN. I think a better way would be to take your idea, I like your thought on it, and have it read something like this:

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, as such, shall act as the principal military adviser to the President and shall keep him completely informed.

In other words, instead of directing that on everything that he go to the President and give everybody's views, that he would be carrying out his mission if he kept him completely informed.

Senator BYRD. I can't vote for a bill unless it includes that.

The CHAIRMAN. What would be your thought, General Bradley, if you say "keep him completely informed?"

General BRADLEY. That is still subject to interpretation. I rather believe that anyone who receives the confidence of this group and the Senate and the President to be appointed in this position, if he didn't present the full views and the contradictory views as well as his own, he should not be there, sir.

I think you will have it without having to spell it out in great detail. I don't see any objection to spelling it out if that is the wish of the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. If we said "completely inform," that would mean he would have to advise him of every essential thing, which would include a difference of opinion, it seems to me, but I would not think we would want to spell it out further. What is your point on that, Admiral? Would "keep him completely informed" satisfy you? Admiral DENFELD. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. General Vandenberg?

General VANDENBERG. I can see no objection to it particularly. However, I do not think anything you put in there is going to make it mandatory unless you spell it completely out, and I do not think that is necessary. I think anything we do in the bill that is going to limit the prestige and authority of either of Secretary of Defense or the chairman but still indicate to him what the intent is without going too far is sufficient and I personally would rather just see the words "as such" as a gentle reminder because we can go on as we go through the bill and we can write in restrictions so that when we get through with this, we are not going to be much better off than we are today, and a gentle reminder as to the intent of Congress is sufficient. The CHAIRMAN. General Cates.

General CATES. I am not on the Joint Chiefs of Staff. If you are to have a chairman, he should merely preside at the Joint Chiefs of Staff and present the views of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the Secretary and to the President.

I really do not like the phrase here, "who shall be the head thereof." I think it is very ambiguous.

Senator BYRD. I can't agree with General Vandenberg, that this is a restriction. If you are going to advise the President of the beliefs and the recommendations of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, not only should he give his individual opinion but he should give any differences of opinion which may exist among the members.

Senator KNOWLAND. Isn't the President performing his office as Commander in Chief? If you were sitting as President, you would probably discuss with the Chairman in order to find out whether this was the unanimous judgment of the Joint Chiefs of Staff or whether the Chairman was coming with his own views, with the three other Chiefs of Staff going in the opposite direction. I think the President himself would be lax if he did not at least make some inquiry.

Senator BYRD. I agree with that; but at the present time the Chiefs of Staff are the sole advisers to the President.

Now, we are changing that to make one man the sole adviser. If we do that, it seems to me there ought to be evidence on the part of Congress that they want all views presented to the President, should there be a difference of views. That is a simple thing, but it may be a very vital thing in some great crisis.

The CHAIRMAN. What is to stop the President of the United States right now from saying in General Order No. 16: "Admiral Felix K. Smith is hereby appointed Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and to be my adviser"?

What is to stop him from doing that? He is the Commander in Chief. He can make that arrangement by a mere designation in a general order, can he not?

Admiral DENFELD. That is perfectly true; but the present legisla tion says that the Joint Chiefs of Staff are the military advisers to the President.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, they could still be. I am not saying he would supersede that in the slightest way. He can just say he shall preside over the Joint Chiefs of Staff and have the rank of "Xxx Xxx Xxx." What could we do about it? If we confirmed him, that would be it.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Will you describe practically how Admiral Leahy worked with all of you?

Admiral DENFELD. He was Chief of Staff to the Commander in Chief of the Armed Services and as such was also a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

The CHAIRMAN. There you had what I am talking about.

General BRADLEY. By statute.

Senator SALTONSTALL. By statute.

Admiral DENFELD. Yes.

General BRADLEY. The old bill made him a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff by law.

I am not a lawyer, but I do not believe the President by General Order No. 16 could make Admiral Smith a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, because you, in passing a law, have prescribed specifically who shall comprise the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

The CHAIRMAN. I did not say make him a members of it. I said make him a presiding officer.

General BRADLEY. I think he can do that, and, as a matter of fact, he has asked General Eisenhower to preside.

The CHAIRMAN. That is what we do here. We do not make him a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff but make him a presiding officer, so it looks to me like we are trying to deal with something that is being done without an act of Congress.

Senator BYRD. This goes further and makes him the sole adviser to the President.

General BRADLEY. This makes him a member:

Hereby established in the Department of Defense the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which shall consist of a chairman, who shall be the head thereof.

The CHAIRMAN. That would cover him in, as a member.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Can you describe a little more how Admiral Leahy acted with you?

Admiral DENFELD. He was a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Senator SALTONSTALL. Senior officer?

Admiral DENFELD. Yes, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Did he report back to the President what you gentlemen did, or did he give his own personal view of it, or how did that work out?

Admiral DENFELD. He kept the President advised of what was going on in the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Senator SALTONSTALL. He had only one vote on the Joint Chiefs of Staff?

Admiral DENFELD. That is correct.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Do you believe that this man we create by law should carry out the general picture as did Admiral Leahy, that he should have one vote, that he should be the presiding officer and carry all your views to the President?

Admiral DENFELD. Yes, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. What you want to do is to make sure he does carry all of your views to the President rather than just his own personal views?

Admiral DENFELD. That is right.

General BRADLEY. May I offer another suggestion?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir.

General BRADLEY. It appears to me that, acting as military adviser to the President, that does not limit him to acting as an adviser on only those matters which have been referred to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The President might want to call on anybody in the services or out of the services, for that matter, for advice. This would set him up as an adviser to the President on all subjects on which the President wanted to call him in as principal military adviser.

Some of those cases would be referred to the Joint Chiefs and the words "as such" would make him present all views.

Other matters might not be referred to the Joint Chiefs.

The CHAIRMAN. You are satisfied with the language as is if the words "as such" are added?

General BRADLEY. Yes.

Senator BYRD. You would have no objection to making it clearer? General BRADLEY. I would not have any objection.

The CHAIRMAN. "Keep him fully advised" would be more exacting. Admiral DENFELD. Of course, I think we ought to realize that that

recommendation was not approved. It was sent forward by the Secretary of Defense but was not approved by the President. The CHAIRMAN. What was the next one?

Admiral DENFELD. The next one was-and I might read our report:

The Joint Chiefs of Staff considered that the functions now set forth in subparagraph (b) (1) to (7) inclusive of section 211 are purely military and as such are properly duties with which the Joint Chiefs of Staff should specifically be charged. To eliminate any possible misinterpretation or ambiguity, the Joint Chiefs of Staff recommend that subparagraph (c) of section 211 of the bill be changed as follows:

Subject to the authority and direction of the President and the Secretary of Defense, the Joint Chiefs of Staff shall

and then we crossed out

assist the Secretary of Defense in

and said

perform such duties as the Secretary of Defense may direct, including— and then we cut out

in the discretion of the Secretary of Defense any or all of—

and then just―

the following.

In other words, the way we recommended that it read is:

Subject to the authority and direction of the President and Secretary of De fense, the Joint Chiefs of Staff shall perform such duties as the Secretary of Defense may direct, including the following:

Then it lists the seven things that we consider the Joint Chiefs of Staff should do.

Senator SALTONSTALL. In other words, you say you shall do the military and you may do such other duties as he wants you to do.

Admiral DENFELD. The way the section now reads in the proposed legislation, the Secretary of Defense could have the Joint Chiefs of Staff do these seven functions or he could give them to anybody else he wanted, and we think they are proper functions for the Joint Chiefs of Staff and they are functions which we now perform.

That is also a provision that was not approved by the Secretary of Defense, but we think it is a very important one.

Senator JOHNSON. What would happen, Admiral Denfeld, if in carrying out those views, if we accepted your suggestion here, formulation of policies for joint training of military forces-"shall include the following," of which that is one, "formulation of policies for joint training of the miltary forces." Suppose the three members of the Joint Chiefs did not agree. Suppose General Vandenberg, General Bradley and you could not agree? What would be done?

Admiral DENFELD. The views of the Chiefs of Staff would be presented to the Secretary of Defense, and he would make the decision. Senator JOHNSON. Under the suggested amendment?

Admiral DENFELD. That is the way it would work.

Senator JOHNSON. And if you did not have the amendment, what would happen?

Admiral DENFELD. If you didn't have that amendment, the Secretary of Defense could tell anybody to do that function, he could appoint a board, he could detail it to any person to do it, and while I do