Mr. LAWRIE. Well, if it will help the committee any, as I said in the beginning, that any and all questions that I am going to have todue to the many oppressive and repressive laws, both on the Federal and State level, I am going to have to invoke the first amendment and the fifth amendment, which have to do with communism or anything of that category. Mr. WHEELER. Where were you last June? What part of the country? Where were you residing? (The witness confers with his counsel.) Mr. WHEELER. Let the record show that he is conferring with counsel. Mr. LAWRIE. I was in the State of Washington. Mr. WHEELER. What part of Washington? Mr. LAWRIE. I would say it was Everett. Mr. WHEELER. Now, Mrs. Hartle identified you as organizational secretary of the central region of the Communist Party during some time in the last few years. Mr. LAWRIE. Are you referring to a possible future Harvey Matusow, one that swears one thing one day and then, the next day, swears something else? Mr. MOULDER. But you are refusing to deny or affirm the charges. You have the opportunity to show that Barbara Hartle, referred to by you as a so-called Matusow, was telling a falsehood. But you are refusing to do that. You refuse to say whether she is telling a falsehood or telling the truth. Mr. LAWRIE. If it will help this committee any, as I stated before, that due to the many oppressive and repressive laws, both on the Federal and State level, I am going to decline to answer that question under the first and fifth amendments. Mr. MOULDER. Proceed with the next question. Mr. WHEELER. Are you a member of the Communist Party today? (The witness confers with his counsel.) Mr. LAWRIE. The same answer. Mr. WHEELER. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. Mr. VELDE. I do want to make this observation. Here again we have a witness who follows the usual line of the Communist Party. It is my belief that the witness, from his behavior on the witness stand, is presently engaged in Communist Party activities. I feel it is improbable that you will change your mind from the attitude you have taken. I very much regret to say that I do feel you are engaged at the present time in activities which are harmful to the preservation of our constitutional form of government. Mr. MOULDER. May I ask did you ever answer the question as to where you were now employed? Was that question ever answered? Mr. WHEELER. No. Mr. MOULDER. Then I ask you that question. Where are you now employed? (The witness confers with his counsel.) 62222-55-pt. 1-6 Mr. LAWRIE. I am employed at the present time by the Weyerhauser Timber Co. Mr. MOULDER. The witness is excused. (Whereupon the witness was excused.) Mr. MOULDER. Call the next witness. Mr. WHEELER. Edward Brook Carmichael. Mr. MOULDER. Hold up your right hand and be sworn. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God? Mr. CARMICHAEL. I do. TESTIMONY OF EDWARD BROOK CARMICHAEL, JR., ACCOMPANIED Mr. WHEELER. Will the witness state his full name, please? Mr. WHEELER. And where do you reside, Mr. Carmichael? Mr. WHEELER. Monroe, Wash.? Mr. CARMICHAEL. Monroe, Wash. Mr. WHEELER. Where were you born and when? Mr. CARMICHAEL. In Washington. Mr. WHEELER. What date? Mr. CARMICHAEL. 1917. Mr. MOULTER. Are you represented by counsel who appears now before the committee? Mr. CARMICHAEL. Yes. Mr. MOULDER. Would your attorney please state her name? Miss LESSER. My name is Sarah H. Lesser, and I am a member of the Seattle bar. Mr. WHEELER. Where are you presently employed? Mr. CARMICHAEL. Washington State Reformatory at Monroe, Mr. CARMICHAEL. Supervisory cook. Mr. WHEELER. How long have you been so employed? (The witness confers with his counsel.) Mr. CARMICHAEL. Four years. Mr. WHEELER. Would you advise the committee of your educational background? Mr. CARMICHAEL. High-school graduate. Mr. WHEELER. Of what school, please? Mr. CARMICHAEL. Sultan Union High School. Mr. WHEELER. How were you employed prior to your employment by the Washington State Reformatory at Monroe? (The witness confers with his counsel.) Mr. CARMICHAEL. By the privilege granted me under the fifth amendment, I decline to answer that question. Mr. WHEELER. On all employment prior to the time you went to work with the State or for the State of Washington? (The witness confers with his counsel.) Mr. CARMICHAEL. For the same reason, I decline to answer. Mr. WHEELER. In what year did you graduate from high school? (The witness confers with his counsel.) Mr. CARMICHAEL. 1935. Mr. WHEELER. You are pleading the fifth amendment on the question of all employment from 1935 to 1951? Am I correct in that? (The witness confers with his counsel.) Mr. CARMICHAEL. That is correct. Mr. WHEELER. Have you traveled outside of the United States? (The witness confers with his counsel.) Mr. CARMICHAEL. I decline to answer for the same reasons as stated before. Mr. WHEELER. Have you served in the Armed Forces of the United States? (The witness confers with his counsel.) Mr. CARMICHAEL. Yes. Mr. WHEELER. During what period of time? (The witness confers with his counsel.) Mr. CARMICHAEL. From April 1945, until August 1946. Mr. WHEELER. Did you receive an honorable discharge? Mr. CARMICHAEL. Yes. Mr. WHEELER. Have you served in the armed forces of any country other than the United States? (The witness confers with his counsel.) Mr. CARMICHAEL. I will decline to answer that for the same reasons as stated before. Mr. WHEELER. Is it a fact that you were a member of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade in Spain? (The witness confers with his counsel.) Mr. CARMICHAEL. The answer is the same as before. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Chairman, I think it would be appropriate at this point to place in the record that the Abraham Lincoln Brigade has been cited by the Attorney General and by the House Committee on Un-American Activities and by various other committees as being subversive. Mr. WHEELER. I hand you a passport application signed by E. Brook Carmichael, and it was subscribed to and sworn to on the 30th day of June 1937. Did you execute this application? (The witness examines document and confers with his counsel.) Mr. CARMICHAEL. I decline to answer on the basis of the fifth amendment. Mr. WHEELER. Would you look at the second page and advise the committee whether or not that is your signature? It is about halfway down. (The witness examines the document and confers with his counsel.) Mr. CARMICHAEL. I decline to answer for the same reason. Mr. WHEELER. You will notice a photograph on the second page. Is that a photograph you submitted for the application? (The witness confers with his counsel.) Mr. CARMICHAEL. I decline to answer for the same reason. Mr. WHEELER. Mr. Chairman, I would like to introduce this docament as Carmichael Exhibit No. 1. Mr. MOULDER. It is so admitted. |