Mr. TAVENNER. When were you at the University of Washington? Mrs. GUSTAFSON. 1940, the summer session. Mr. TAVENNER. I interrupted you. You were in the course of giving some further extension work. Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I have had extension courses; I just finished one a few weeks ago. Mr. TAVENNER. How have you been employed since 1940? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. In 1941 I taught kindergarten. Right after Pearl Harbor I went into the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard. And when I left there I organized and supervised the war emergency nursery schools in Bremerton, the after-school-care program for the children of working mothers. Then I worked for the Kitsap County Welfare Department. Mr. TAVENNER. When was that, please? Approximately. Mrs. GUSTAFSON. My first child was born in 1945. So it was the year of 1945, maybe the latter part of 1944. I don't recall exactly. Then in the fall of 1947 I went back to teaching in the Bremerton public schools, and have been there ever since. Mr. TAVENNER. Mrs. Gustafson, do you have any knowledge of the operation of the Northwest Labor School in Seattle? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to avail myself of the privilege granted me by the fifth amendment of the Constitution of the United States, which protects me from giving testimony which might incrimi nate me. Mr. MOULDER. The question asked was: Do you possess any information or knowledge concerning the school referred to by counsel? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mr. MOULDER. He did not ask you for any specific information. He just asked you if you had such information, if you knew about the school. Do you refuse or decline to answer? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to avail myself of the privilege of invoking the fifth amendment for the reasons given before. Mr. TAVENNER. Did you attend the Pacific Northwest Labor School at any time? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously given. Mr. TAVENNER. Quite apparently, Mr. Chairman, it would be a useless waste of time to ask any further questions regarding the operation of the school. (The Spring 1947 Catalogue of the Pacific Northwest Labor School is hereby made a part of the transcript, and appears herewith.) Mr. TAVENNER. During the period of time that you have been engaged in teaching have you been a member of the American Federation of Teachers unions? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mr. TAVENNER. And I should add, for your information, that the American Federation of Teachers unions has never been cited as a communist front organization. (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. Yes; I have been. Mr. TAVENNER. Over what period of time have you been a member? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. Off and on since I became eligible in 1937, whenever I was in the public schools. Mr. TAVENNER. The investigation which this committee has conducted within the past few years has developed information in several different parts of the country, and I refer particularly to New York, to Harvard University, to the general area of Los Angeles, and, I believe, also in Michigan, that the Communist Party made a very strong effort to get in a position to control the activities of the teachers unions affiliated with the American Federation of Teachers. Do you have any knowledge as to whether or not the Communist Party made an effort to infiltrate the American Federation of Teachers union here? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mr. TAVENNER. I think I should say, and it may be of some help to you in answering the question, that I have no information of any Communist Party activities within the American Federation of Teachers union here. But I want to know whether there were. (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. My counsel advises me that I must say "No." I am sorry but I have to answer. Mr. TAVENNER. And what is your answer? Mr. TAVENNER. That you do not have any such knowledge? Mr. TAVENNER. Have you held any office or position in the American Federation of Teachers unions? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. Yes. I held the office of treasurer. Mr. TAVENNER. Over what period of time? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I think it was a portion of 1948 and a good share of 1949. Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any time during the years 1948 and 1949 ? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. No; I was not. Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any time while you were a member of the American Federation of Teachers unions? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment, for the reasons previously given. Mr. TAVENNER. Are you a member of the Communist Party now? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. No. Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 1947! (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment to the Constitution, for the reasons previously given. Mr. TAVENNER. According to your testimony, you were at the University of Washington for 1 year in 1940. Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I beg your pardon. That was the summer session. Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a member of the Communist Party at that time? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment for the reasons previously given. Mr. TAVENNER. Were Communist Party meetings held at any time in your home during the year 1947? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment, for the reasons previously given. Mr. TAVENNER. Were you at any time a member of the Victory Club of the Communist Party in Bremerton? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I shall have to invoke, for the reasons previously given. Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Chairman, inasmuch as the witness refuses to answer as to the period 1940-47, it is hardly necessary to ask any further questions. So that is all I have. Mr. MOULDER. Mr. Velde? Mr. VELDE. Do you intend to invoke the fifth amendment on any question we might ask you touching upon your activities as a member of the Communist Party? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds previously given. Mr. VELDE. It is obvious to me that we cannot get any information whatsoever from this witness. So I have nothing further to ask. Mr. MOULDER. Would you answer a question concerning any information or knowledge you may have of Communist Party or subversive activities in which you yourself were in no way whatsoever personally connected? If you had such knowledge and information, would you answer the question concerning such information or knowledge? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, but I have to invoke the fifth amendment, for the reasons previously given. Mr. MOULDER. I want to make myself clear, that I am not proposing to ask you questions concerning any matter or any fact which would tend to incriminate you personally. I say would you answer any question concerning any fact or information you may have concerning subversive, communistic, or unAmerican activities which you yourself were not related to, but which you have knowledge of concerning someone else. Would you answer such a question? (The witness confers with her counsel.) Mrs. GUSTAFSON. I am sorry, sir, but I shall have to invoke the fifth amendment. Mr. MOULDER. You are excused as a witness. The committee will stand in recess until 1:30. (Whereupon, at 12:03 p. m., the subcommittee was recessed, to be reconvened at 1:30 p. m., this same day. Remainder of this hearing is printed in pt. 2 of this series.) |