and have been developing their bungalow areas. They have set up grounds and a building where they have a day camp in operation. They have a lake which is community-owned and shared for the chil dren.

Mr. SCHERER. Do you mean the camp is conducted for the children of the people who own the bungalows!

Mr. SALZ. Who either own or who rent. That is, there are some people who may rent out a unit or a part of a unit.

Mr. SCHERER. Is this a summer community?

Mr. SALZ. I believe there are some people who have winterized homes there and who live there the year round. I presume it is predominantly a summer community.

Mr. TAVENNER. Is the IWO connected in any manner with the development of that camp?

Mr. SALZ. I wouldn't know, and on the basis of the first and fifth I wouldn't answer one way or the other on that kind of thing. Things that I don't know about I don't think it is fair to ask or fair to an

swer.

Mr. TAVENNER. There is no way for us to know what you know unless we ask you.

Mr. SALZ. True. I have no knowledge of that.

Mr. TAVENNER. Who employed you?

Mr. SALZ. I was interviewed by a committee of 3 people, and I was told I could have the job if I wanted it after the interview. Not immediately after, but they must have been interviewing people

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you asked any question prior to your employment relative to any Communist Party activities on your part! Mr. SALZ. I refuse to answer that question on the basis of the first and fifth amendments, too, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. That leaves the matter with the inference that you were asked some questions about Communist activities.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. TAVENNER. Out of fairness to those individuals, I think you should answer that question.

Mr. SALZ. Actually, as far as I am concerned, whatever the inferences may be, they are up to you. I have answered on the basis of the answer which I feel is proper and fair in this matter, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. You were a member of the Communist Party, were you not, at the time you were employed to operate the camp?

Mr. SALZ. There, again, I refuse to answer on the basis of the fifth and the first amendments.

Mr. TAVENNER. And you have been a member of the Communist Party during the period that you have been operating that camp; have you not?

Mr. SALZ. There again, may I say, on the basis of the first and fifth amendments, I feel that is a very unfair question and outside of your province.

Mr. TAVENNER. Are you acquainted with a person by the name of Dorothy Funn?

Mr. SALZ. There, again, on the basis of the first and fifth amendments I refuse to answer that question.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mrs. Dorothy Funn testified before this committee and identified you as the individual who recruited her into the Communist Party.

Did that occur?

Mr. SALZ. On the same basis, of the first and fifth amendments, I refuse to answer that question.

Mr. SCHERER. Was Mrs. Funn telling this committee the truth when she stated under oath you had recruited her as a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. SALZ. As I say, I will not engage in a discussion on what or what not was in a person's mind or conscience on any of these matters.

Mr. SCHERER. I am not asking that question. I am asking you whether or not Mrs. Funn, when she told this committee that you were the one that recruited her into the Communist Party, was telling the committee the truth. That is not an opinion.

Mr. SALZ. Again, I told you that I refuse to answer on the basis of the first and fifth amendments, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a teacher in the Bedford-Stuyvesant area?

Mr. SALZ. Again, on the basis of the first and fifth, I refuse to answer that question.

Mr. SCHERER. I ask that you direct the witness to answer that question, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. DOYLE. We are not satisfied with your answer, and cannot accept it. I direct you to answer that question.

Mr. SALZ. Same answer, sir.

Mr. DOYLE. Were you a teacher in a public school in the State of New York prior to the time you became director of this particular camp this summer?

Mr. SALZ. Once again, on the same basis, I refuse to answer that question, sir.

Mr. DOYLE. In other words, the question of whether or not you were a public-school teacher might incriminate you?

Mr. SCHERER. I ask you to direct the witness to answer the question. Mr. DOYLE. We cannot accept your answer as satisfactory, and I will direct you to answer the question.

Mr. SALZ. Same answer, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. Are you a member of the Communist Party now! Mr. SALZ. On the basis of the first and fifth amendments, sir, I refuse to answer the question.

Mr. TAVENNER. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?

Mr. SALZ. Same answer.

Mr. SCHERER. I think I should say to you that in my opinion, your refusal to answer the question of Mr. Doyle as to whether or not you were ever a teacher in the public schools, on the basis of the fifth amendment, in that instance you are not invoking the fifth amendment properly, and that you are in contempt of this committee. That is just my opinion.

Mr. SALZ. I have tried to answer as I saw my rights.

Mr. TAVENNER. Do you have any employment other than the operation of the summer camp?

Mr. SALZ. On that same, the first and fifth amendment, basis, sir, I refuse to answer that question.

Mr. DOYLE. Do you have any questions, Mr. Scherer?

Mr. SCHERER. No.

Mr. DOYLE. Are any of the staff of counselors or assistants of yours at the camp this summer college men or women from nearby colleges! Mr. SALZ. I am not sure.

Mr. DOYLE. Would you take a minute to refresh your memory? Mr. SALZ. Whether they are taking courses at college or not, I don't know.

Mr. DOYLE. They might be in summer recess right now.

Mr. SALZ. I am thinking in terms that most of them are mature people who, if they have been college trained, would have been provably graduated from college.

Mr. DOYLE. Are any of them high school youngsters from nearby high schools?

Mr. SALZ. To my knowledge, I don't know that either. I haven't gone into the background of the people in that regard.

Mr. DOYLE. Of course not, but are any of your counselors or assistants high-school age?

Mr. SALZ. The formal counselor staff is not, to my knowledge. Mr. DOYLE. Well, the informal counselor staff, then, if you have both. You said the formal counselor staff.

Mr. SALZ. Some of our people that they have are intraining people. They have one person as an intraining person, who might be. She is a resident of the community. I might say that the community committee has placed people, and I presume they are owners in the community. They would know. I don't have that much knowledge of their background.

Mr. DOYLE. I understand some of those problems because I have directed some summer camps myself.

Are any of the counselors or your assistants at the camp this summer known to you to be members of the Communist Party?

Mr. SALZ. I refuse to answer a question of that kind also, on the basis of the first and fifth amendments.

Mr. DOYLE. Are you at this time a member of the Communist Party! Mr. SALZ. I believe I have answered that question, too.

Mr. DOYLE. I do not want to repeat it.

Mr. SALZ. On the basis of the first and fifth amendments, I refuse

to answer that question.

Mr. DOYLE. Do you have any other questions?

Mr. TAVENNER. No, sir.

Mr. DOYLE. If there are no other questions, thank you.

(Whereupon, at 1:10 p. m., the committee recessed subject to the call of the chair.)

INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES, NEW

YORK AREA-PART 5

(Summer Camps)

MONDAY, AUGUST 1, 1955

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE

ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES,
Washington, D. C.

EXECUTIVE SESSION 1

The subcommittee met at 10:30 a. m., pursuant to notice, in room 7 of the House Office Building, Hon. Francis E. Walter (chairin) presiding.

Committee members present: Representative Walter (presiding) d Scherer.

Staff members present: Thomas W. Beale, Sr., chief clerk; Frank Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Raymond T. Collins, and C. E. Owens, intigators.

Ir. WALTER. The subcommittee will be in order.

Representatives Walter and Scherer were present at the convening the hearing and remained present throughout the hearing.) Ir. WALTER. Will you stand and be sworn?

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will he truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you

TIMONY OF FRED BRIEHL, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, MILTON H. FRIEDMAN AND JOSEPH KOOPERMAN

[r. TAVENNER. What is your name, please, sir?

r. BRIEHL. Fred Briehl.

r. TAVENNER. It is noted that you are accompanied by two counWill each identify himself for the record?

r. FRIEDMAN. Milton H. Friedman, 342 Madison Avenue, New

K.

r. KOOPERMAN. Joseph Kooperman, Ellenville, Ulster County,

. TAVENNER. When and where were you born, Mr. Briehl?

. BRIEHL. I was born in Paterson, N. J.

. TAVENNER. What date?

Leased by the committee.

Mr. BRIEHL. December 15, 1892.

Mr. TAVENNER. Where do you now reside?

Mr. BRIEHL. Wallkill, N. Y.

Mr. TAVENNER. What is your present occupation?

Mr. BRIEHL. I operate a farm.

Mr. TAVENNER. Where is this farm located?

Mr. BRIEHL. The post office address is Wallkill, N. Y., but it is in a township of Gardiner.

Mr. TAVENNER. What other occupations do you have besides that of farming?

Mr. BRIEHL. Mr. Chairman, I think on this question I will invoke the fifth amendment, and I shall not answer.

Mr. WALTER. I direct you to answer the question as to whether or not you have any other occupation.

Mr. BRIEHL. I shall invoke the fifth amendment and I shall not answer that question.

Mr. TAVENNER. Have you ever engaged in the occupation of printing or in the trade of printing?

Mr. BRIEHL. Many years ago.

Mr.TAVENNER. When was that?

Mr. BRIEHL. I don't remember exactly.

Mr. TAVENNER. What was the last position that you held in which you worked as a printer?

Mr. BRIEHL. On that question I shall also invoke the fifth amend

ment.

Mr. WALTER. I direct you to answer the question.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. BRIEHL. I invoke the fifth amendment on that question.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee please what your em ployment has been since 1930?

Mr. BRIEHL. I invoke the fifth amendment on that question.
Mr. WALTER. I direct you to answer that question.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. BRIEHL. I think that I stated before when you asked me that I was operating a farm.

Mr. TAVENNER. Has that been your occupation since 1930? (The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. BRIEHL. I have been operating a farm as I stated before, and beyond that, on this question, I invoke again the fifth amendment. Mr. SCHERER. I think he should be directed to answer Mr. Tavenner's question of whether he has been operating this farm since 1930. Mr. WALTER. I direct him to answer the question.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. BRIEHL. Since 1925.

Mr. TAVENNER. Is this farm owned solely by you?

Mr. BRIEHL. It is in my wife's name.

Mr. TAVENNER. What is the size of the farm?

Mr. BRIEHL. One hundred and twenty acres.

Mr. TAVENNER. What type of farming operations do you engage in! Mr. BRIEHL. I raise hay, and I have been dairying.

Mr. TAVENNER. What other employment have you had since 1930! Mr. BRIEHL. I shall invoke the fifth amendment on that question. Mr. SCHERER. I ask you to direct the witness to answer.