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Mr. TAVENNER. You would say that in spite of the fact that you now contend that you had no knowledge about the Federated Press carrying the Communist Party line?

Mr. SALEMSON. Sir, the question of Federated Press carrying the Communist Party line was of no relevance to me professionally, and I wrote labor news for them.

Mr. SCHERER. Were you a member of the party at that time?

Mr. SALEMSON. Sir, if you are referring to the period before July 1, 1948, my memory for an hour is quite good and I am still not answering questions under the fifth amendment on any activities other than my purely professional activities which are a matter of public record on any period prior or to July 1, 1948, and I would like to repeat again for the record that I think that I am being very reasonable with you.

Mr. SCHERER. And you say that you are willing to cooperate since 1948 with this committee, and give them all of the information that you have?

Mr. SALEMSON. Sir, I am willing to

Mr. SCHERER. The fact is that you have no information since 1948 concerning any Communist Party activities, and that is the reason you are willing to cooperate.

Mr. SALEMSON. Sir, if you are making a statement, I would like to make a statement.

Mr. SCHERER. I am asking, isn't it a fact that you have no information since 1948 about any Communist activities?

Mr. SALEMSON. I have no information.

Mr. SCHERER. That is the reason then that you told the committee and tried to put a halo around your head, that you are willing to cooperate with this committee and tell them everything you know since 1948. The fact is you don't know anything about Communist Party activities since 1948 that would be helpful to this committee. Mr. SALEMSON. That is correct.

Mr. SCHERER. Isn't that a fact?

Mr. SALEMSON. That is correct.

Mr. SCHERER. All right. But you do know about Communist Party activities before 1948 and you are refusing to tell us about those.

Mr. SALEMSON. I have already stated earlier in my testimony that I will not testify about that and what implication was that could or could not be drawn and what my reason was. I will not allow myself to be entrapped by people who are willing to come in here and testify in order to clear themselves as former heretics, in order to come back into the fold and testify about anything that they wish, and then go into court to have their testimony which may or may not be dependable put up against mine.

I therefore stand on the fifth amendment insofar as any activities, >pinions, or beliefs of mine other than my purely professional ones before July 1, 1948.

Mr. SCHERER. You tell us the name of any person who has come before this committee who has lied to this committee or told us somehing that was untrue.

(Witness consulted with counsel.)

Mr. SCHERER. Tell us the name of any witness.
Mr. SALEMSON. Would you repeat that question?

Mr. SCHERER. You tell us the name of any witness who has been before this committee, take even this week, who has told us an untruth. (Witness consulted with counsel.)

Mr. SALEMSON. Sir, I am not, I have been here only today, and I have not been following these hearings or other hearings so closely as to know all about this, and I am entitled to my opinion of what recanting heretics throughout the ages have been. If you people will not learn from history and will not learn even from not too old American history of the type of testimony that is sometimes given, in the case of people who are trying now to clear themselves, then, sir, I must decline under the fifth amendment to put myself in the same class with people like that and to have my word which I have no question about, put up against their's under purely technical circumstances where I have no assurance

Mr. SCHERER. What recanting heretic told this committee anything that was untrue that makes you use the fifth amendment?

(Witness consulted with counsel.)

Mr. SALEMSON. As far as I know you have only had one and I never heard of the man before yesterday, and so I can't discuss him at all. Chairman WALTER. What part of his testimony was false?

Mr. SALEMSON. I don't know anything about his testimony. Chairman WALTER. You charge him with testifying falsely without knowing what he testified to?

Mr. SALEMSON. I am not charging him.

Chairman WALTER. Of course you have, you just said that “you have only had one."

Mr. SALEMSON. This committee has gone on for a long time.
Chairman WALTER. Yes; I know.

Mr. SALEMSON. This committee has gone on for a long time.
Chairman WALTER. By unanimous vote of the Congress.
Mr. SALEMSON. Yes, sir.

Chairman WALTER. All right, go ahead, Mr. Tavenner.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Salemson, as a result of testimony which the committee had received in its investigation, it was thought that you were in a position by which you could give the facts regarding important matters that the committee has been investigating. You say that you are not going to give us the benefit of any information which you have up until July 1, 1948? If I understand you correctly, you have indicated that you have no information since July 1, 1948. Is that the substance of what you have stated?

Mr. SALEMSON. I have stated to you sir that I am not a member of the Communist Party, and I know nothing about any Communist activities since that time, and if you have any direct questions I will be happy to answer them.

Mr. TAVENNER. And because you say that you have not been a member since July 1948, therefore you are unable to give this committee any facts?

Mr. SALEMSON. Yes.

Mr. TAVENNER. Prior to July 1, 1948, you could give this committee facts if you would; couldn't you?

Mr. SALEMSON. Sir, I stand on my privilege under the fifth amendment and I have explained to you, and it seems to me I need not explain it again, I think that I am a reasonable man, that I will not

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 2485

allow myself to be maneuvered into a position of making yes or no statements about things that took place over 7 years ago to have this put against the word of somebody else whoever that person may be. I think that 7 years is a reasonable period and therefore, sir, I will continue to stand on the fifth amendment.

Mr. TAVENNER. Let me ask you this question.

Since July 1, 1948, have you conferred with any persons that you knew prior to that time was a member of the Communist Party? Mr. SALEMSON. What do you mean by "conferred," sir?

Mr. TAVENNER. Talked with, corresponded with, have conferences with.

Mr. SALEMSON. Sir, I think that this is a loaded question, on which I must stand under the fifth amendment, since obviously you are asking me whether I knew them before July 1, 1948, and I think it is kind of clear, but I think it is an attempt to evade or get exactly the same way that this committee generally evades due process of law by trying to trap people where there is no due process by which you can repress in this country today still fortunately, independent thinking. You are trying to inhibit independent thinking. All of my life, sir, I have been an independent thinker.

Chairman WALTER. We don't care about that. I am directing you to answer that question.

Mr. SALEMSON. Sir, I stand on my privilege under the fifth amendment not to answer this question which relates again to the period that I have said I would not talk about.

Chairman WALTER. No; you misunderstood.

Mr. TAVENNER. It could have been even yesterday, and that is well within the 7-year period that you have been talking about.

I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman WALTER. Have you any questions, Mr. Scherer?
The witness is excused.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. David Kanter.

Chairman WALTER. Will you raise your right hand please?

Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. KANTER. I do.

TESTIMONY OF DAVID KANTER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, HARRY SCHWIMMER

Mr. TAVENNER. What is your name, please, sir?

Mr. KANTER. David Kanter.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you please spell your name, please?

Mr. KANTER. K-a-n-t-e-r.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will counsel accompanying the witness please identify himself for the record?

Mr. SCHWIMMER. Harry Schwimmer, 111 East 56th Street, New York City.

Mr. TAVENNER. When and where were you born, Mr. Kanter?
Mr. KANTER. Philadelphia, July 12, 1909.

Mr. TAVENNER. Where do you now reside?

Mr. KANTER. New York City.

Mr. TAVENNER. How long have you been a resident of New York

City?

Mr. KANTER. I would say about 12 or 13 years.

Mr. TAVENNER. What is your profession or occupation? Mr. KANTER. I am a production stage manager in a theater. Mr. TAVENNER. How long have you been engaged in that type of enterprise?

Mr. KANTER. About 18 years roughly.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee please some of the principal stage productions which you have directed?

Mr. KANTER. Well, currently, I will go back from now to the Boy Friend, which is currently running on Broadway; Take a Giant Step: Lend an Ear, Alive and Kicking; and 2 or 3 other productions, and Call Me Mister. I did 2 or 3 others, the Searching Wind; the Rugged Path, and

Mr. TAVENNER. Call Me Mister was produced in 1946 and 1947; was it not?

Mr. KANTER. I think that is correct, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee please what your formal educational training has been?

Mr. KANTER. I had grammar-school education, and a year of high school, and that was the extent of my education.

Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Kanter, were you subpenaed at an executive session of the committee on August 1, 1955, in Washington at which Representatives Doyle, of California, and Scherer, of Ohio, were sitting as the subcommittee?

Mr. KANTER. That is correct, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. I want to read to the subcommittee a part of the testimony as a basis for asking this witness a question.

Mr. APPELL. Mr. Kanter, the committee is currently making an investigation of the extent to which the Communist Party and its members figure in the enter tainment media in New York. The committee has certain information that you possess knowledge in this field and we have called you before us to help the com mittee and the Congress with the knowledge that you possess. Do you possess any knowledge with respect to the Communist Party?

Mr. KANTER. I am sorry, sir.

Counsel

not the present counsel, Mr. Ross, stated:

May I advise the witness?

Mr. DOYLE. The witness conferred with his counsel.) (The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. SCHWIMMER. Before you read further, Mr. Tavenner, as I understand it, Mr. Ross asked for a copy of the transcript, so he told me, and he was advised that it would be sent to him, and I am saying what he told me. He never did receive a copy of that transcript, and we don't have a copy of it.

Mr. TAVENNER. I would be happy if you would sit by me while I read it so that you may see what it is. Come right over here. Mr. SCHWIMMER. Thank you, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER (reading):

Mr. KANTER. I am sorry, sir, I don't want to appear disrespectful to you gentlemen and your committee, and your work, but I am afraid that I must decline to answer these questions, and I cannot testify in connection with this matter on the grounds of the fifth amendment.

I read further from the testimony:

Mr. SCHERER. Might I interrupt? Were you ever a member of the Communist Party?

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE NEW YORK AREA 2487

Mr. KANTER. I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment, sir. Mr. SCHERER. Are you a member of the Communist Party today?

Mr. KANTER. It is the same answer, sir, I refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment.

Now, following those questions and answers, you were asked other questions to which you declined to answer, and finally Mr. Scherer nade this statement to you:

Perhaps it has not been clear. Let us go over it again.

In other words, he is repeating what he had already said. Let us go over it again.

Now, you have been asked certain questions with reference to your knowledge of communism and your associations with the Communist movement. You have told this committee that you are not going to answer those questions. Now, the reason you give for not answering them, and in our opinion the only reason that you can give us is the fact that you say that to answer those questions might result in a criminal prosecution, and that you might in some way by answering our questions subject yourself to some criminal prosecution. Now, if you honestly believe that, and I think that you do believe that, you certainly have the right to invoke the fifth amendment and refuse to answer our questions. We feel that you have some valuable information that would help this committee and help your country, or at least I feel that way, and I think that Mr. Doyle does. We could use that information very well. What I am saying is this:

If this committee would invoke the law which was passed just last year which gives us the right to grant you immunity and to free you from any possible prosecution for the answers that you might give us, would you then tell us what you know?

Mr. KANTER. May I just say a word to my counsel?

Mr. SCHERER. Surely.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. KANTER. Sir, counsel advises me that this whole law is a highly debatable law, and it is before the Supreme Court. He advises me not to make any statemen in relation to that at this time.

Mr. SCHERER. Now, will you do this, then. When you leave here today, will you give some consideration to the proposal that I have made, and I do not think in my opinion, and I may be wrong, and your counsel may be right, that it is as debatable as he thinks it is. I am thoroughly convinced in my own mind that no persecution would result if we would grant you immunity. Whether the law was eventually interpreted to be constitutional or not, certainly no government would prosecute you after a committee granted you immunity. We just don't do things in that way in this country.

I wish after you get away from here, and you think this over, if you might not want to cooperate with this committee. Certainly I think that I am speaking for Mr. Doyle and myself that we are not interested in prosecuting you, but we do think that you have some valuable information that would help us in uncovering some Communist activities in this country that might be helpful. I have nothing further.

Now, Mr. Kanter, from what I understand, that offer of the committee stands good today, and I want to ask you this question:

If proper application is made to the Federal court to secure immunity against prosecution, will you testify as to the facts within your knowledge?

(Witness consulted with counsel.)

Mr. KANTER. Sir, I must tell you that I must take the same position today as I took when I was first called before the subcommittee in Washington, because I am advised again by counsel that this law is in a highly debatable state.

Mr. TAVENNER. You were subpenaed for the first day of this hearing, or the beginning of this hearing, and we have postponed your appearance from day to day at your request through members of your family, to see if you would think differently about the matter. If that is your final decision, I have no further questions.

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