Senator CLARK of Idaho. Let me interrupt you, Mr. Page, to say that a careful survey was made on the Boise project, which is a big one, about a year ago. This survey was a very careful scientific survey and showed that 75 percent of all of the farmers' income and the people's income, on that project, went for manufactured and processed articles of the East.

Mr. PAGE. Well, I was referring particularly to the Federal money which was spent on the construction.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Oh, yes; I see.

Senator BARKLEY. How many of these projects are now under construction, may I ask?

Mr. PAGE. About 26.

Senator BARKLEY. How many new ones do you have in mind?

Mr. PAGE. Why, there are about 20 more that we have considered. Senator BARKLEY. With respect to these 26 that are under construction, are they being constructed slowly because of the lack of sufficient appropriations to carry them on more rapidly?

Mr. PAGE. Yes, sir; generally speaking they are all moving at a slower pace than they could and should, because the returns do not come in until completion. For that reason, they should be carried forward more rapidly.

Senator BARKLEY. How many acres of land are involved in the projects that are under construction, and how many acres are involved in the new projects that you have in mind?

Mr. PAGE. There are approximately two and one-half million acres. which could be developed under the projects which are now under construction, and something less than or not much over 500,000 acres would be added by the new ones.

Senator BARKLEY. For what purpose would that land be utilized? Mr. PAGE. It is used for the specialty crops which are grown in the high mountain and western areas, and confined to fruits and vegetables.

Senator BARKLEY. I assume, therefore, there would be no conflict. between the development of this acreage and any crop-control project that is now under way in the other agricultural commodities? Mr. PAGE. We deny that there is any.

Senator BARKLEY. Yes.

Mr. PAGE. As a matter of fact, as these areas are developed, they are now receiving the influx of western farmers who have had to abandon other areas in that section.

Senator BARKLEY. Yes.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. The Department of Agriculture's official statistics, which I have available, show that 60 percent of all the crops grown on western irrigated lands are fed to livestock, right on the projects. Of course a great proportion of this is hay and feed for the cattle and sheep industries.

Of the remaining 50 percent, a very substantial portion is consumed right on the farms, so to speak, and another very substantial proportion of the remaining 50 percent goes to noncompetitive crops, such as sugar beets, which are raised only on irrigated land, and beans. and peas and things of that nature, of which there is no surplus in that country.

Am I correct, Mr. Page?
Mr. PAGE. Yes, sir.

Senator BARKLEY. I wanted to ask about that, because that question may arise.

Mr. PAGE. Yes; the Senator properly states the case.

Senator BARKLEY. How much of this $83,000,000 would be allocated to existing projects that are now under construction, and how much to new ones?

Mr. PAGE. About $44,000,000 to existing projects, and the other, approximately $39,000,000, to new projects.

Senator BARKLEY. How long would their completion require, on those that are now under construction, and how long would the new ones require?

Mr. PAGE. Generally speaking, the new ones are of smaller size, and the completion would require perhaps 2 or 3 years. Some of the others, which are larger in scope, would require a period longer than that.

Senator BARKLEY. You would say altogether running from 2 to 5 years?

Mr. PAGE. Yes, sir.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Mr. Page has a list of the projects; he has prepared this list, and divided it into two parts, first, of those under construction, where he has shown the total estimated cost, the amount needed to complete, and then the proposed appropriation from the Self-Liquidating Projects Act, totaling $44,300,000; and then the second part of the list is a list of new projects which can be started immediately and which will be started eventually; there is no question about that.

Senator BARKLEY. I suggest he put that list in the record.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Yes, I was going to suggest that, rather than going into detail, he put that into the record.

Senator BARKLEY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well.

(The list above referred to is as follows:)

Estimate of appropriations from self-liquidating projects act, 1939, for Bureau of

Reclamation

Estimate of appropriations from self-liquidating projects act, 1939, for bureau of Reclamation-Continued

The CHAIRMAN. Is there considerable employment involved in these projects, Mr. Page?

Mr. PAGE. The total employment at the present time involved on our projects amounts to about 20,000 people—that is, actual direct employment arising through the activities of our Bureau.

The CHAIRMAN. Assuming that this appropriation were provided for in the next 2 years, can you estimate how many people you would be able to employ?

Mr. PAGE. It would nearly double.

The CHAIRMAN. Of course, then there would also be the need for material, and that would help in other directions.

Senator ADAMS. The indirect employment is three or three-and onehalf times the direct employment, is it not?

Mr. PAGE. There is a variety of figures available, but that is the most commonly accepted-about 31⁄2 to 1.

The CHAIRMAN. I have studied that rather carefully, at times. Of course it depends upon the nature of the project.

Senator BARKLEY. Altogether it would be almost 100,000 people, then, who would be affected by the employment?

Mr. PAGE. Yes, sir.

Senator HUGHES. I should like to ask what the nature of the employment is.

Mr. PAGE. The direct employment is almost entirely confined to what is commonly called heavy construction-that is, tunnels and dams and excavating of canals, and things of that kind, performed by the industry called the heavy construction industry.

Senator HUGHES. It is for producing the dams and developing the streams for irrigation?

Mr. PAGE. Yes, sir; the storage of water, and its use for irrigation. However, the indirect employment is in the manufacturing centers, where we purchase equipment and supplies and materials.

Senator ADAMS. There is a stimulus to the heavy industry production.

Mr. PAGE. Yes, sir.

Senator HUGHES. You propose to have the Government loan money to the companies or cooperatives, and so forth?

Mr. PAGE. No; the Government does it only through the purchase of materials which are needed for these projects that are built.

Senator HUGHES. How is the Government secured in its money? Mr. PAGE. The Government is secured by a contract with the State or municipal corporation, which bonds itself or commits itself to make the full payment.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. And they do not get the water unless the pay, Senator Hughes.

Senator HUGHES. Do they pay tolls for the water?

Senator CLARK of Idaho. With their taxes, each farmer pays his proportionate share of the construction costs.

Senator ADAMS. And of the maintenance cost.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Yes, and of the maintenance cost.

I suppose you heard the statistics that 97.7 percent are repaid, to date, that are due, and all will be ultimately repaid.

I should like to say that the only reason that 97.7 percent has not been increased to 100 percent, to date, is that some of the earlier projects were probably a little ill-advised. However, now the new projects are gone into with such thoroughness that there is no question about 100-percent repayment.

The CHAIRMAN. When you consider the contribution made, under these, to the welfare of the communities, I think that even 97 percent is an excellent record. Of course, I am only one member of the committee, but I have been persuaded, myself, that they should be included in these authorizations.

Senator BARKLEY. I want to say that so far as I am concerned, I am thoroughly sympathetic with the amendment. I suppose the language should be worked out; but I am glad, personally, to endorse the theory of the amendment.

Senator CLARK of Idaho. Well, I appreciate that a great deal, coming from the majority floor leader and from the chairman of the committee.

Senator O'Mahoney, who is the joint author of the amendment with me, is here.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you care to say something, Senator O'Mahoney?

Senator O'MAHONEY. Mr. Chairman, I shall not attempt to add very much to what has been said.

The CHAIRMAN. I think you have the committee pretty much with you.

Senator O'MAHONEY. That is fine. I do not want to talk it out.

However, I do want to call this particular fact to your attention: When the Appropriations Committee was in session and was considering one of the recent bills, the representatives of the Farm Security Administration came before us and told a rather depressing story of the number of farm families which are now in a migratory status. As I recall it, something over 300,000 farm families are now moving around in the West. Many of these have come from what has been known as the dust bowl area. I do not think any greater public service can be rendered than to attempt to stabilize families of that character upon the land. The opportunity is presented by the development of irrigation. The water is there; the dam sites are there. All that is necessary to do is to construct the works, to store the water, to put it out upon the land, and thereby to afford an opportunity for these families to establish themselves as they want to establish themselves.

I feel that it will be a great pity if this committee should not include this item in this bill. If the bill is going to pass, this provision for the development of the West ought to be included. When you consider the harmony between rural electrification and reclamation, you see the great opportunity which is presented for stabilization of farm families upon homes; and I certainly express the hope that the committee will act as has been indicated by the two members who have spoken.

Senator HUGHES. I wonder if I could ask the Senator a question: What is done under the present reclamation law?

Senator O'MAHONEY. Well, sufficient funds are not available to take advantage of all the opportunities that are presented.

Senator HUGHES. We would buy the land and resettle these people about whom you have been talking?

Senator O'MAHONEY. Well, in many cases the land is already owned by the Government.

Senator HUGHES. I did not know whether it was altogether or whether you were separating the two and, under this bill, providing for the irrigation of land that had already been resettled under the resettlement program.

Senator O'MAHONEY. Oh, no; that is not the purpose at all. This is extending the projects that are possible.

Senator HUGHES. Because nothing in this bill is limiting that at all. Senator O'MAHONEY. That is what we regret; we feel this should be in there.

Senator HUGHES. Yes. You have about everything else.

Senator O'MAHONEY. May I say, in response to what the Senator from Delaware has said, that my own judgment is that the reclamation program is definitely and clearly a self-liquidating program and one that will justify itself not only in the building up of particular communities but in the return which will come to the Federal Treasury. That has already been demonstrated by our 30-year experience under reclamation.

The CHAIRMAN. May I say to the Senator that that has already been covered by Senator Clark of Idaho and Mr. Page. Of course, we are very glad to have your confirmation of that point.

Senator HUGHES. I do not understand the thing; and what I was trying to find out was whether we had one program set up entitled "Reclamation," which had nothing to do with this law, and whether