Mr. WOLVERTON. And that is allowing for the different rates in pay received by workmen. Do you know anything about that?

Admiral BEURET. No; I can not tell you about that. That goes into everything right from the beginning.

Mr. WOLVERTON. Do they build in navy yards abroad or in private yards?

Admiral BEURET. They build in both kinds of yards, but they build more in private yards than in navy yards. However, they do build in navy yards. Over there they call them dock yards.

Mr. WOLVERTON. In the building of these cruisers was there any competition among these yards or were they allotted as a matter of discretion?

Admiral BEURET. They were allotted to yards that had built vessels. They were allotted to the yards that had building facilities. rather. Of the first lot one went to the navy yard, New York, and one to a private contractor. Of the second lot four went to private contractors and two went to navy yards.

Mr. WOLVERTON. What yards have facilities for building new cruisers provided for in the program we created last spring and which is now pending in the Senate?

Admiral BEURET. With some modifications, Boston and New York; Philadelphia and Norfolk if their building ways are repaired; then there are Mare Island and Puget Sound.

Mr. WOLVERTON. You say if conditions are taken care of that certain yards may handle this work. Take Philadelphia, for instance. If the ways are repaired at Philadelphia, what would it cost to repair them?

Admiral BEURET. It would cost about $500,000 apiece.

Mr. WOLVERTON. So that before the Philadelphia Navy Yard could build a cruiser there would have to be an expenditure of at least $500,000 to repair the ways?

Admiral BEURET. Approximately $500,000.

Mr. WOLVERTON. And if you should use concrete in that repair work instead of wood it would cost probably $900,000?

Admiral BEURET. I do not know, but I think $500,000 contemplates permanent construction.

Mr. WOLVERTON. I think that estimate is based upon the use of timber rather than concrete.

Admiral BEURET. You may be right, but that is not my understanding.

Mr. WOLVERTON. What would be the cost of putting the Boston Navy Yard in shape to handle one of these cruisers?

Admiral BEURET. I think it would be about $225,000.

Mr. WOLVERTON. And what would be the cost to put the New York yard in condition to handle one of these cruisers?

Admiral BEURET. That would only involve the fitting of a slip for the building. She has one cruiser now and it will be launched in April.

Mr. WOLVERTON. What about the navy yard at Portsmouth, N. H.? Admiral BEURET. That yard is not fitted for such work.

Mr. WOLVERTON. What about the navy yard at Norfolk? Admiral BEURET. The way at Norfolk is about in the same condition as the two ways at Philadelphia, and it would cost somewhat the same amount to fix it up.

Mr. WOLVERTON. What about the navy yard at Mare Island? Admiral BEURET. When Mare Island launches the present one, her ways, of course, could take another one.

Mr. WOLVERTON. How about the navy yard at Puget Sound? Admiral BEURET. The dock there would hold two cruisers. They have a building dock and they so placed the present cruiser that they could put another one in the dock at the same time.

Mr. WOLVERTON. I have no further questions.

The CHAIRMAN. If the admiral has nothing further to tell us and there are no further questions, the chair will entertain a motion to favorably report this bill.

Mr. VINSON. I move that we adjourn at this time.

The CHAIRMAN. Repeating, the chair will now entertain a motion to favorably report this bill.

Mr. VINSON. No; I can not agree to that at this time. Please do not press that now. I move that we adjourn.

The CHAIRMAN. If you chiefs of bureaus have anything further to say in regard to this matter, please make it a part of the recordwrite it in-so that the committee will have the benefit of it on the floor of the House.

The committee will now adjourn to meet Monday morning at 10.30.

(Thereupon at 2.30 o'clock p. m., Saturday, December 8, 1928, the committee adjourned to meet at 10.30 o'clock, Monday, December 10, 1928.)

2197-28-No. 29- -2

О

HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON NAVAL AFFAIRS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ON H. R. 11616, "TO AUTHORIZE ALTERATIONS AND REPAIRS TO CERTAIN NAVAL VESSELS, NAMELY, THE "PENNSYLVANIA" AND "ARIZONA," AND H. R. 13249, FOR THE "OKLAHOMA" AND "NEVADA"-Continued

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
COMMITTEE ON NAVAL AFFAIRS,
Tuesday, December 4, 1928.

The committee this day met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Hon. Fred A. Britten (chairman) presiding.

STATEMENT OF REAR ADMIRAL JOHN D. BEURET, CONSTRUCTION CORPS, UNITED STATES NAVY, CHIEF OF THE BUREAU OF CONSTRUCTION AND REPAIR

The CHAIRMAN. Let us proceed to the consideration of other bills on the calendar which have not already been heard. However, Admiral Beuret was not here yesterday when we discussed H. R. 11616, which is a bill to authorize alterations and repairs to the Pennsylvania and the Arizona. We will now hear Admiral Beuret in connection with that matter. Admiral Beuret, will you be good enough to give the committee the benefit of your wisdom in connection with this matter?

Admiral BEURET. The Chief of the Bureau of Ordnance and the Chief of the Bureau of Engineering also are here. They also are interested in this matter and perhaps we should all sit in.

The has a set of bills before him or did have a set before him yesterday. Perhaps most of us have taken them to our offices. Is it your intention, Admiral Beuret, to talk about the increased cost of modernizing the Oklahoma and the Nevada?

Admiral BEURET. I will talk about anything the committee desires

know.

THE CHAIRMAN. We desire to know about the Pennsylvania and

the Arizona.

Admiral BEURET. That matter was quite thoroughly discussed at the last session of the Congress and I think it would be better for the Committee to indicate what information it now wishes. We will

furnish it if we can.

this matter seems to be quite thoroughly discussed therein. The CHAIRMAN. I believe that Mr. Vinson desires to ask you some questions particularly about the Pennsylvania and the Arizona.

I was looking over the report in the hearing and

Mr. VINSON. The admiral has this morning submitted the cost of repairs to these two vessels. He has told us the total cost of repairing and altering the ships in question and that is all I want to know now. However, I have an amendment I would like to submit and ask

2197-28-No. 30

(225)

permission to offer it on the floor to-morrow. This amendment would be section (2) and reads that—

the alterations and repairs herein authorized to one of the capital ships shall be made in a Government navy yard or navy yards. The Secretary of the Navy shall procure, by contract with a private shipbuilding concern, the alterations and repairs to the remaining capital ship, provided a reasonable and satisfactory bid is obtained.

I am applying to the Pennsylvania and Arizona the principle of the Dallinger amendment to the cruiser bill. The Dallinger amendment, which was adopted by the House, provides that one-half of the cruisers shall be constructed in a navy yard and one-half in private yards. The House has gone on record as allocating the construction along that line. That being true we ought to have it said that one of these repair jobs should be done in a navy yard or navy yards and the other done in a private yard or private yards.

Mr. DARROW. It must be remembered that estimating on these repair jobs is a very difficult matter.

Mr. VINSON. My amendment provides that a reasonable and satisfactory bid for this altering and repairing shall be obtained. The department may not be able to get a reasonable and satisfactory bid.

Mr. MILLER. Carrying out your principle, in all repair work, in any degree, one-half of it would be done in Government yards and the other half of it in private yards.

Mr. VINSON. The House has laid that down as a principle in building ships. They are taking that matter out of the discretionary powers of the Secretary of the Navy and making it mandatory that onehalf of our war vessels shall be built in Government yards and onehalf in private yards.

Mr. MILLER. But there is a wide distinction, which we all recognize, between repair work and new construction.

Mr. VINSON. There is absolutely no doubt about that. I appreciate that.

The CHAIRMAN. I am inclined to agree with the substance of the question asked by Mr. Darrow and Mr. Miller. There is a great difference between the construction of new ships and extensive alterations, but on the other hand I agree with Mr. Vinson that if there is a principle involved in the so-called Dallinger amendment that distributes the work between Government and private yards, and the House has gone on record in favor of that principle even though I do not agree with the intent if a reasonable bid may be obtained from private shipbuilders, I think the principle should be followed; and with that in mind I am going to ask for the opinion of Admiral Beuret. Admiral, would it be possible for the Navy Department to draw complete detailed plans and specifications covering practically all of the alterations and repairs that would go in a modernization program for the Pennsylvania and the Arizona such as is contemplated by this bill, so that a private contractor could make an intelligent bid for the work?

Admiral BEURET. I do not think that would be practicable, because it is impossible in case of a repair job to determine just what will be done in advance of opening up the ship, and there are so many questions that are matters of judgment. If one says that a certain thing is to be repaired, it is a matter of judgment whether the deterioration is advanced to the point where it should be replaced or