or the year after, in order to extend this training. I am not binding myself or my successors in that matter.

Mr. VINSON. On the basis of the plan you'have worked out here, you contemplate, do you not, that $85,000 will purchase and equip this range so as to meet all of the present needs of the fleet?

Admiral MCNAMEE. I would not say that.

Mr. VINSON. We are getting right into the position where we were awhile ago.

Admiral MCNAMEE. I was asked if we would be asking for anything more, and I say that I do not know.

Mr. VINSON. Then, how do you know that $85,000 will do what you contemplate doing?

Admiral MCNAMEE. I do not think anybody knows. It is only as good a guess as anybody could make at this time.

Mr. VINSON. We can not go on the basis of anybody's guesswork here. That will not do.

Admiral MCNAMEE. If you were to spend money in developing in detail every plan that is proposed by the Navy, or if you were to make detailed surveys and specifications covering everything that is proposed, there would be millions of dollars of Government money spent without any results being obtained.

The CHAIRMAN. Admiral, did I understand you to say, in reply to Mr. Vinson's question, that this $85,000 authorization, or appropriation, when made effective, would be better than nothing out there? Admiral McNAMEE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I think, then, that the department had better reconsider its desire for a rifle range out there, and come in with something that is a little more definite. You say now that it will not accommodate the desires of the fleet when the fleet goes up there, but that it will give you something that is better than nothing. Admiral McNAMEE. I did not mean that.

The CHAIRMAN. I am opposed to taking this thing up piecemeal by buying an inadequate piece of property now, and from what you have just said, it will be inadequate. I am opposed to taking it up piecemeal, with a view to supplementing it later on to any great

extent.

Admiral MCNAMEE. I do not think it will be inadequate. As I have said, until we make a survey of the land and find out exactly what bottoms and elevations we will have, we do not know exactly how many acres will be required.

In

Mr. MILLER. Is it not true that in almost all Army and Navy activities, we start in with a development, and then expand it? the matter of fortifications, for instance, do they not begin in a rather modest way and then develop or increase the project as the demand may require? For instance, we do that in the rehabilitation of the camps and cantonments of the Army. We are doing that now out in that country, and have appropriated probably three-quarters of a million dollars for that purpose. In the event this authorization of $85,000 were allowed, and then within a year or a year and a half afterwards it became necessary to increase the facilities there, as experience might demonstrate, I can see no objection to having it. done.

Admiral MCNAMEE. I think it would be the best $85,000 worth that the Government has purchased in a long time.

The CHAIRMAN. When you speak of the enlargement or further development of the range, do you mean an enlargement of the acreage or an enlargement of the facilities?

Admiral MCNAMEE. An enlargement of the facilities.

The CHAIRMAN. And not of the acreage?

Admiral MCNAMEE. Not of the acreage, but of the facilities.
The CHAIRMAN. You are certain of that?

Admiral McNAMEE. I am confident of that.

Mr. VINSON. With the present strength of the Battle Fleet, and the number of ships that are berthed at the Puget Sound Navy Yard, as I understand it, this $85,000 will provide a rifle range sufficient for the present needs; is that correct?

Admiral MCNAMEE. In our opinion, it would.

Mr. VINSON. Then as long as the Battle Fleet stands at its present strength, with that amount of money you can build a rifle range sufficient to meet the needs of the Battle Fleet, and you would be precluded from coming back and asking for more money at any future time. Admiral McNAMEE. I would not say at any time.

Mr. VINSON. That is, as long as the fleet remains at its present strength.

Admiral MCNAMEE. That would apply to almost every naval activity. I doubt if anyone can estimate exactly the ultimate needs and cost of any development project.

The CHAIRMAN. In your opinion, can a first-class rifle range be constructed out there, and can the acreage suitable for a first-class rifle range out there be provided, within this proposed authorization of $85,000?

Admiral MCNAMEE. I think that a first-class rifle range could be constructed inside of that amount.

(Upon motion of Mr. Burdick, the bill, H. R. 15678, "To provide for the establishment of a rifle range in the vicinity of the navy yard, Puget Sound, Wash.," was ordered favorably reported, without amendment.)

(Thereupon, the committee proceeded to the consideration of other business.)

O

A HEARING ON H. R. 8917, A BILL TO ESTABLISH A HYDROGRAPHIC OFFICE IN HONOLULU, TERRITORY OF HAWAII

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON NAVAL AFFAIRS,

Tuesday, January 29, 1929.

The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Hon. Fred A. Britten (chairman) presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will take up for consideration the bill, H. R. 8917, introduced by Mr. Houston, "To establish a hydrographic office in Honolulu, Territory of Hawaii." The amount of money involved is unimportant, but the Navy Department recommends against the enactment of the bill on the basis of a communication from the Bureau of the Budget.

The bill provides

That the Secretary of the Navy is hereby authorized to establish a branch hydrographic office at Honolulu, in the Territory of Hawaii, the same to be conducted under the provisions of an act entitled 'An act to establish a hydrographic office in the Navy Department,' approved June 21, 1866.

SEC. 2. That the Secretary of the Navy is hereby authorized to secure sufficient accommodations in said city of Honolulu for said hydrographic office and to provide the same with the necessary furniture, apparatus, supplies, and services allowed existing branch hydrographic offices, at a cost not exceeding $5,000, which sum, or so much thereof as may be necessary, is hereby authorized to be appropriated, out of any money in the Treasury not otherwise appropriated, for these purposes.

Mr. Houston, will you be good enough to tell the committee just why this hydrographic office should be located at Honolulu, what the needs for it are, and what you think it will cost to maintain it?

STATEMENT OF HON. VICTOR S. K. HOUSTON, A DELEGATE IN CONGRESS FROM THE TERRITORY OF HAWAII

Mr. HOUSTON. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, the hydrographic office is an office that is provided for in various ports wherein there is collected information and data having to do with marine matters, and it is also for the purpose of disseminating that same information. It is a collating, collecting, and disseminating agency, and is helpful to the commerce, not only of this country, but to all ships navigating the seas. Congress has provided for such offices in the principal harbors of the country, including such inland harbors as Duluth, Detroit, Chicago, Sault Ste. Marie, and Cleveland. Then, naturally, they are provided at the big ocean harbors of the country, including San Juan, Porto Rico. The commerce passing through Honolulu each year is very large. Honolulu, as you know, is called the "Cross Roads of the Pacific," and the commerce there is increasing very fast. For the last 28 years the (581)

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increase in the shipping that has gone through the port of Honolulu has been at the rate of 1,700 per cent.

The CHAIRMAN. In how many years?

Mr. HOUSTON. In 28 years. In the last fiscal year, 1928, 8,106,875 tons of commerce passed through the port of Honolulu. That is an increase of about 1,000,000 tons a year, as I recall it. At the present time we have an officer detailed by the department in Honolulu who carries on, to a certain extent, these duties. That is done, because it has been recognized that this duty is of particular importance. For instance, shipping comes to Honolulu from the mainland, from the Canal Zone, we will say, and coming from San Pedro, from San Francisco, as well as from Seattle and from Vancouver. There is also much shipping coming to Honolulu from South America. So there we have coming together at one point, or focused there, nautical information the distribution of which should be almost immediate. There is shipping coming from South America, particularly from Chile, carrying nitrates for the sugar industry in the islands. Ships come from the Canal Zone engaged in all trades, and the weather that they have encountered, the shoals they may have.discovered, and wrecks that may have been reported are facts that should be reported. As soon as they come into port there should be a dissemination of all this new information which had not been previously reported. This office serves for the collection and dissemination of all such information.

From Honolulu ships go to New Zealand, Australia, Samoa, and Fiji, to the Philippines, to Japan, and to China. So you will see that there is a center there where the shipping is drawn into a funnel, so to speak, and it is there that this information should be disseminated. This agency should be located at such a place that it may be available or accessible to the personnel of the ships that are interested. It should be so located that they may be attracted to the office, without having to go too great a distance. Of course, in order to do that, there must be available some office with facilities for collating, collecting and disseminating this information. The office should be served by civilian experts, such as are generally attached to those offices. It is in order that that situation may be recognized that this bill has been introduced by me. I recognize the fact that the Department has not approved the bill, but, as I understand it, that is due to the recommendation of the Budget Bureau, which reported, at the time this bill was introduced a year ago, that it was contrary to the financial policy of the President. However, I have every reason for hoping that the newly discovered surplus, that may be available at the end of the year, will be such that the small sum that will be necessary to establish this important agency may be granted without being in conflict with the Presi dent's present financial policy.

Mr. MILLER. What is the newly discovered surplus that you refer to?

Mr. HOUSTON. I simply refer to what has been stated in the papers and on the floor of the House.

The CHAIRMAN. The unexpended balances in the Treasury.
Mr. HOUSTON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Where does the navigator who brings his ship into your port now get information as to shipping conditions, water depths, etc.?

Mr. HOUSTON. He gets it now from the officer who was detailed there for the purpose by the Navy Department, but he is without civilian assistants.

The CHAIRMAN. There is such an office there now?

Mr. HOUSTON. Yes, sir; there is an information office there now. The CHAIRMAN. Does that office perform all the functions that are ordinarily performed by a branch hydrographic office?

Mr. HOUSTON. So far as he is able to, but he has no civilian assistants to keep charts corrected and data available for the personnel. He is not located in the most central position, where the service would attract the attention of navigators of the merchant shipping.

The CHAIRMAN. Has any condition been brought to your attention where charts were not kept up to date?

Mr. HOUSTON. Yes. I know from personal experience, having been the officer detailed to that position (in addition to other duties), what the situation is there. I know that we were not in a position to correct all the charts as we only attempted to keep up to date the local charts, and the west coast charts-other charts were corrected on notices in the index.

The CHAIRMAN. Do I understand you to say that you have been the officer detailed there for that duty?

Mr. HOUSTON. As an additional duty, I held that position as well as that of captain of the yard at Pearl Harbor.

Mr. VINSON. Would the establishment of a hydrographic office there be of any benefit to aviation?

Mr. HOUSTON. Yes, sir; because the Hydrographic Office at the present time has the duty of collating information of that nature. It is the source of publication of the aviation charts that are distributed.

Mr. VINSON. Does the Hydrographic Office oftentimes furnish valuable information about weather conditions to aviators and different facts that aid aviators in making their flights?

Mr. HOUSTON. The weather conditions are broadcast by the Weather Bureau, which is another agency of the Government, under the Department of Agriculture.

Mr. VINSON. How much personnel would you have to have? A nautical engineer would be about all, would it not?

Mr. HOUSTON. I think they have a nautical expert and civilian clerk, as a rule.

Mr. VINSON. That is all that would have to be provided?

Mr. HOUSTON. The chief hydrographer of the Navy is here, and I would be glad if you would ask him to present the details with respect to such an office.

Mr. MILLER. In your judgment, about what would be the cost for quarters there?

Mr. HOUSTON. I think that satisfactory quarters might be obtained for $50 per month. Those quarters would be right at the water front, in a modern concrete building.

Mr. MILLER. They have some magnificent wharves at Honolulu. Mr. HOUSTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. MILLER. This would be down along the water front?

Mr. HOUSTON. Yes, sir. That is where I tried to get it when I was there, but I was not able to get it there because the funds were not available.