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It should be translated into all foreign languages in which we have minority
groups in this country and sent into every new American's home.--NORMAN J.
PADELFORD, professor of International Relations, Massachusetts Institute of
Technology, Cambridge, Mass.

This is a worthy effort and a great production. It should be in the hands of every school teacher and preacher in our Nation. If possible, in the hands of every high-school and college student.—FRED E. REED, The Valley Bank, Hindsville, Ark. West Virginia your booklet

is full of valuable information. I feel now that I understand our position in world affairs much better.-W. W. KEYLOR, principal, Wheeling High School, Wheeling, W. Va. Connecticut

Let me congratulate you on Our Foreign Policy. It is a singularly clear and precise statement, and exactly what is needed at this time.-RUSSELL HENRY STAFFORD, president, Hartford Seminary Foundation, Hartford, Conn.




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Senator McCARRAN. Now, your second basic objective here as set out on page 171 is “Developing policies on public information designed to keep the United States public informed on international affairs."

Will you describe some of the policies you have developed ?
Mr. SARGEANT. I will put it this way Mr. Chairman--

Senator McCARRAN. I am using the language you have here in your justification.

Mr. SARGEANT. Yes, sir. We have developed policies of this kind : The first is that it is our job in the Public Affairs area in the Department to make the case within the Department for the fullest exposition and explanation of the facts underlying foreign-policy decisions.

Senator McCARRAN. Now, give me that again, please ? You say "to make the case within the Department” ?

Mr. SARGEANT. To make the case within the Department.
Senator McCARRAN. That is, your Department?

Mr. SARGEANT. The Department of State, for the fullest exposition and explanation of the factors underlying foreign-policy decisions.

The second policy that we have developed is that to the extent that we can we will work through the great associations and organizations in this country that have an itnerest in foreign policy. We will attempt to work closely with the leaders of labor groups, veterans' groups, of church groups, so that they, through their own constituencies, will be able to get information to the people that are members of their organizations.

This is opposed to developing a large direct operation that tries to reach directly into every community. Instead, we are working through the people that I have described as the middleman. We are working through perhaps 450 national organizations and perhaps some 700 regional organizations in this way. Those are the examples of what we mean by developing policies of public information.

Senator FERGUSON. What does it cost for that one item—these 400 organizations where you invite people down here? Do you send them abroad at times? You do; do you not?

Mr. SARGEANT. Well, Senator, do not let me confuse you on that.

Chairman McKELLAR. Wait one moment. He asked you a perfectly direct question that can be answered “Yes" or "No." Let him repeat it, and you answer the question “Yes” or “No." Do not give us a roundabout answer.

Senator FERGUSON. What is the cost of bringing these people down?

Mr. SARGEANT. There is no cost, sir, for bringing the people to these meetings, other than the cost of the salary of the officers of the Department who participate in the meetings themselves. The people who attend


their own expenses. Senator FERGUSON. Do you not send some of these people abroad on these foreign-policy issues?

Mr. SARGEANT. No, sir.

Mr. RUSSELL. Only sir, in the case of German Affairs. There is an arrangement by which some newspaper editors and, I think, some presidents of women's clubs are in Germany, but that is not out of the budget here.

Senator FERGUSON. It is out of some other budget?

Mr. WILBER. The transportation in the latter case you spoke of was paid for by the women's clubs themselves. There was a subsistence factor that was paid out of the appropriation for "Government in the occupied area of Germany."

Mr. RUSSELL. We don't pay that transportation, and we don't pay

a per diem.


Senator FERGUSON. I would like to have you supply for the record the things that these people have changed. I want to know whether this is only a selling proposition or whether it is a selling and receiving proposition, or whether it is solely propaganda, and I would like to ask, in connection with that, whether you got up the famous document of December 23, with reference to the Far East. Did you get that up in this Department?

Mr. SARGEANT. No, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. Well now, there is a sample. You see, we have this Department that we spend so many thousands of dollars on, and then we have other departments doing similar work.

There was a document gotten up to explain our foreign policy in the Far East in case of the fall of Formosa. Here was a document prepared to tell the world how we felt about the fall of Formosa. Now, is not that part of this work?

Mr. SARGEANT. Senator, I would like to say

Senator McCARRAN. We were going to tell the world that we did not care.

Senator FERGUSON. Is that not under this work?

Mr. SARGEANT. When you say “this work,” that would fall within the eight points that you find on page 171. However, we are talking here about the item of “Salaries and expenses,” and the item that you speak of relates to the "International information and educational exchange” program, which will come before this committee subsequently.

Senator FERGUSON. Wait. You say that that comes under these items 1 to 8. If it is distributed within the United States, would it not come under items 1 to 8?

Mr. SARGEANT. Yes, sir. But may I make this distinction? We are talking here about programs that are primarily domestic programs. They are carried out in this country. They affect people in the United States. The document to which you refer was a document related to the oversea-information program, and as such is related only to those items on page 171 that relate to the oversea program.

Senator FERGUSON. What I am getting at is this: That, if you had used that document in this country, it would have come directly under your Department.

Mr. RUSSELL. But it does not apply to the domestic operations, Senator. That was only for overseas.

Senator FERGUSON. Do you mean to say that it would have never een used domestically? Mr. SARGEANT. Yes, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. What is the use of explaining that in foreign countries? Did you not contemplate explaining how you felt about this matter to the American people?

Mr. SARGEANT. Yes. That was done, though, Senator, in an entirely different way.

Senator FERGUSON. Now, was there another document gotten up on that?

Mr. SARGEANT. I would have to check to see whether there was such a document.

Senator FERGUSON. Will you do that? Mr. SARGEANT. Yes. (The information follows:) The subject of Formosa was publicly dealt with by Secretary Acheson at his press conferences of December 14, 1949, and January 5, 1950, and in his remarks before the National Press Club in Washington on January 12, 1950. The Secretary's remarks before the Press Club were published in the Department of State Bulletin of January 23, 1950.

Senator FERGUSON. I am assuming that you were going to sell it to the American people.

Chairman MCKELLAR. I note that item 2 on page 71 reads:

Developing policies on public information designed to keep the United States public informed on international affairs.

Item 3 reads:

Developing and executing necessary policies pertaining to international information and educational activities to implement the United States foreign-policy objectives.

Let me see if there are any others :
“Historical research”—that has nothing to do with it.

Senator McCARRAN. Senator, I want to call your attention to the last paragraph, in connection with your question.

During both fiscal years 1951 and 1952 the office will (a) direct the expansion and improvement of the United States “Information and educational exchange" program, seeking to implement its effectiveness through the development of new ideas and techniques.

Chairman McKELLAR. Yes. Would you like to explain that or make it clear?

Mr. SARGEANT. Yes, sir. That relates, Senator McKellar, entirely to the item of $115,000,000 which was referred to by the chairman at the opening of this morning's session, and will be justified subsequently in these hearings.

Chairman MCKELLAR. We want to know—we want a justification of the items in this bill.

Senator McCARRAN. Does it not come under your Department now, Mr. Sargeant?

Mr. SARGEANT. Yes; it does, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman MCKELLAR. Why is it included here?

Mr. SARGEANT. The operations, Senator, that fall under the Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs are financed out of two separately identified appropriations. The ones we are discussing this morning are financed out of “Salaries and expenses, Department of State, whereas the entire overseas information and educational exchange program is financed out of the separate appropriation item that your committee also considers.

Senator FERGUSON. But you tender these pages in support of this.

Mr. SARGEANT. Only to show, Senator, that the Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs is the man under whom both of these operations are placed.

Senator McCARRAN. That is right. You are here now, and it is all in your hands, all under your supervision.

Mr. SARGEANT. Yes; that is correct, Mr. Chairman.

Senator FERGUSON. Then, let us find out what the whole program is going to cost.

Mr. SARGEANT. May I make this point clear: With respect to our domestic operations, the totality of this, you will find on page 170 the request for 283 positions, the same number of positions on hand now.

Senator FERGUSON. What page ?
Mr. SARGEANT. Page 170.

Chairman McKELLAR. You are asking for $1,398,610. That is correct; is it not?

Mr. SARGEANT. That is correct.

Senator McCARRAN. Now, does that item, that sum, cover all of your activities in your Office? That is a pretty general question, but maybe we can break it down later on.

Mr. SARGEANT. It covers, Mr. Chairman, all the domestic activities in our Office.

Senator McCARRAN. How about the foreign activities?


Mr. SARGEANT. It does not cover the overseas information and educational exchange operations,

Senator McCARRAN. Where does that come in?

Mr. SARGEANT. That comes under the appropriation called U'SIE, and it is identified in the amount of

Senator McCARRAN. That is the item of $115,000,000 ?
Mr. SARGEANT. Yes; $115,000,000.
Senator McCarran. And this is a relatively small amount.
Chairman MCKELLAR. It is "chicken feed."

Senator FERGUSON. Will the 283 employees work on both!
Mr. SARGEANT. No, sir; they will not.

Senator FERGUSON. How many employees have you now on the Foreign.

Mr. SARGEANT. I would have to supply that figure, Senator.

Mr. WILBER. Mr. Chairman, I think I can clarify this a bit. The Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs, Mr. Barrett, as an individual is responsible for administering and supervising both the domestic program and the overseas program. His immediate office, as indicated on page 171, is financed totally from the "salary and expenses" appropriation.

Now, he happens to spend part of his time supervising the Voice of America and the information program. But the program proper, of course, is not financed through the “Salary and expenses" appropriation.

Senator FERGUSON. Well, now, for instance, you have one item here-you say you keep them separate, and yet you have on page 172 an item indicating that you withdraw these people in order to perform emergency assignments in this field.

Mr. SARGEANT. Yes, sir. Now, Senator, this again is an operation that is purely domestic. The people work here. Their activities are directed entirely within the United States. This is entirely distinct from anything done abroad.

Senator FERGUSON. Do you mean to say that you separate the sale of your foreign policy in America from the foreign sale?

Mr. SARGEANT. Yes, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. And there is no connection other than that you

Mr. SARGEANT. Of course, a connection is provided through the Assistant Secretary and his staff officers.

Senator FERGUSON. What is the difference?
Mr. SERGEANT. The operations are carried on entirely differently.
Senator GREEN. Are you not the Assistant Secretary?
Mr. SERGEANT. I am the Deputy Assistant Secretary.

Senator FERGUSON. What is the difference between the sale of our foreign policy in relation to Formosa, outside of the United States, as compared to what it is inside the United States? All you are supposed to be doing is telling the truth; is it not?

Senator GREEN. It is more than that, of course.
Senator FERGUSON. Even more than telling the truth?
Senator GREEN. Yes.

Senator FERGUSON. I did not want to assign too great a burden to him.

Senator GREEN. I do not think they ought to tell the whole truth to the general public.

Senator FERGUSON. You think they ought to tell it to the international public? You do not mean that, and not to our general public?

Senator GREEN. I think they ought to tell both of them what is in our interests.

Chairman McKELLAR. Mr. Chairman, when they get through, I want to ask a question.

80513-51-pt. 1-71

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